Posted on 01/13/2005 10:01:46 PM PST by kattracks
A Lutheran task force handed a victory to homosexual rights groups yesterday by recommending that although the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America should not change its policy against ordaining homosexual clergy, it should not censure churches that break the rule.
But "those who feel conscience-bound to call people [as pastors] in committed same-sex unions should refrain from making the call a media event either as an act of defiance or with the presumption of being prophetic," the task force warned. The 14-member task force pronounced itself conflicted and unable to agree about how the ELCA should proceed.
What emerged in their report — released at church headquarters in Chicago — was a compromise in which congregations could hire homosexual clergy without making this the official policy in the 4.9-million-member denomination.
The compromise came as three recommendations:
•That Lutherans "learn to live together faithfully," while disagreeing, thus avoiding the splits over homosexuality that have dominated the Episcopal Church, which has shared sacraments, clergy and ministry with the ELCA since 2001.
•That the ELCA continue to have no official policy on same-sex unions, but "respect" a 1993 ELCA bishops' statement that does not approve such ceremonies as official church acts;
•That the denomination not discipline churches that hire homosexual clergy, nor the clergy themselves. At least 14 openly homosexual seminarians or clergy serve in ELCA churches, according to the San Francisco-based Lutheran Lesbian and Gay Ministries.
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
Martin Luther is turning in his grave. What cowards!
As a lifelong Lutheran, this sickens me. Martin Luther must be spinning in his grave. See my tagline.
God's laws are not harmful but in fact are instructions to us on how to live the best life we can. The Hebrews looked at the law as a special gift from God. Early Christians looked at the law as affirmation that God loves us.
The instruction that we either have sex in marriage or we remain celibate is God's advise on how to make our lives the best they can be. The same holds true for murder and thief. God's laws are not intended to make the life of the murdered or thief worse, They are intended to tell the murderer or thief or homosexual that his life is better if he loves God with all his heart, mind and soul and if he refrains from murder, theft or sexual immorality.
But he was also asked, if he would change and back away from his beliefs and standing. His relpy, "Unless I am convicted by scripture and plain reason - I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other - my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen" And as he ended his stand "Here I stand. I cannot do otherwise. God help me, Amen!" He's rlling before we have gotten away from the Truth!
The perfect statement that defines what is so horribly, horribly wrong in American "religiosity" today. The American Evangelical scene has become "Ned Flanders on Steriods" (no offense ABoS). It is a caraciture of itself. Gospel reductionism (as seen above) is the cause.
Let's all play nice and be "churchy".
You have an argument with Paul.
Exactly, and that is what is truly missing. Sad.
I do ?
Romans 7: 12Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
hmmm.
8But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.
(1)You miss the point because you too seem to assume that God's laws of celibacy and marriage somehow harm the homosexual.
Answer: I do not know how you can assume this from what I wrote. I do agree that I misinterpeted your original thread. But I also believe that you read something into what I wrote which wasn't there.
(2)God's laws are not harmful but in fact are instructions to us on how to live the best life we can.
Answer: "For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God". God's law is not instruction on how to live for we are unable to live according to God's law. God's law is a mirror to show us our sin which needs to be repented for.
(3)The instruction that we either have sex in marriage or we remain celibate is God's advise on how to make our lives the best they can be.
Answer: God doesn't give advise. God gives us His law and His promises. If God's Word contained advise it would leave it open to discretionary practices. Therefore, "Thou shalt" is not advise but law.
The man in Corinth sleeping with his mother was simply ahead of the times. In today's American Church he could have become a bishop. Should the unrepentant not be known? This makes me want to vomit and I'm not even a Lutheran.
But move out from that and its confirmed by the old and new testaments that the law is good.
Matthew 7:9-11 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 9“Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask himDoes God give us a law that is not a "good gift" ?
Bite your tongue sir! I am a proud member of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod and we have no truck with ELCA. Our synod stands firm behind the faith and does not tolerate this foolishness.
I like your moniker. If only there was such a thing.... :)
(String Player here).
I leave you to argue with your god. Enjoy!
Being Lutheran means never having to say, "I decided."
It's not about condemning a rather significant part of society.
First: You use the word 'significant' - homosexuals make up less than one percent of the population, afflicted with a condition that has no known genetic cause. This means the condition is either psychological, or it is simply a lifestyle.
Second: The church already makes room for homosexuals and any other and all sinners. All are unworthy, every one. We are justified by faith and faith alone in Jesus Christ as our Savior. All who call upon Him and repent are saved.
Okay, so now let's talk about our homosexual pastor. He's unrepentant. He's in a 'committed' relationship, as if that is supposed to make homosexuality okay (labeled by the Bible as an 'abomination' specifically, just so we're clear on it). And he's going to stand before God and His Church and say, "Unless you renounce sin, and ask God for His eternal forgiveness, you are not saved."
After we are saved, we vow to do better as people. We'll always be afflicted by sin, and we struggle with our nature until we die, but we are saved.
The homosexual pastor sends the opposite message. He says that today's sin is tomorrow's committed relationship. He says you can indulge openly and purposefully in sin without it bothering God.
We are saved, but we are still accountable for our every action here on earth. Ordained homosexuals, by their nature, say that you can have your cake and eat it to, and be okay in the eyes of God. It isn't true. What's worse is that the ELCA knows that.
I sin everyday, and I hate it, because I know it offends the God who loved me enough to sacrifice His own Son. How does a pair of homosexuals, one of which is a pastor, square that up with God, and still try to advise me in my walk with Christ?
Homosexuals are as welcome as any sinner is in my Church. Yet I would no sooner call a homosexual to be our pastor as I would a serial rapist, a thief, a killer, or an adulterer. There is no spiritual leadership potential in any of those lifestyles.
The ELCA is trying, like the Episcopals, to re-write the Bible for a looser age.
Also, you say we sound like RACISTS. Race isn't something you can control, as it is in your genes. We are open to all races. Homosexuality has no genetic cause. If you are homosexual, then clearly you are afflicted psychologically, or you are making a bad lifestyle choice.
Homosexuals aren't doomed, and neither is any other sinner who repents their sins and struggles to do better. The Kingdom of God is wide open to the repentent homosexual.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.