Europe -- Thy Name Is Cowardice

FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | 1/07/05 | Matthias Dopfner

[vincenzzo]

How would you characterize the European press? I read several papers on a adily basis. Every day there is an onslaught of Anti-Americanism. I am getting sick of it. Looks like Goebbels had many able Apprentices all over the world who are now promoting his legacy.

I honestly have to say I didn't notice any open Anti-Americanism in the mainstream press. I noticed much anti-Iraq war sentiment, naturally, and eventually anti-Bushism. But certainly not exclusively. Journalists rather seemed eager to outbalance their readership's opinion.
There was a, well, war of ideas regarding the Iraq war, and the Atlanticists ("if in doubt let's go along with America to save the alliance") seem to have lost, despite governments and their journalists.

Then again maybe I'm not reading the right papers, and I certainly have no oversight of the press in each of the 25 EU member countries.
What papers are you reading or refering to?

[americanbychoice2]

Mostly German and UK.

[Red6]

-Wow-

It's hard to find someone with which you agree in every aspect!

Red6

[roses of sharon]

Speaking in general of course, I do not believe that the EU, the UN, and the "global leftist community", governments, and the global press, are cowards at all. Nor are they wimps.

You are simply fighting a proxy war, using OBL, Saddam and Sons, Arafat, and the Islamic cults, to defeat US and Israeli power.

For decades the Islamic cults have been roaming the globe murdering innocents, with impunity, all the while Europe, and the "global community", have rationalized this behavior and attitude as the victimhood of, "occupation", "humiliation", and "oppression".

Sure, arrests are made, but no serious repudiation against these cults, only Israel and the US are repudiated as evil, mendacious, devious, and sinister. (I have seen no "marches" against OBL and Saddam and Sons)

Only on 9/11, for about a week you "loved" us, of course it's typical to love us ONLY when we are dying.

Most Americans know who has defended OBL, Saddam and Arafat for 30 years now.

And most Americans know exactly who supports them in Iraq and around the world.

US power is what you seek to destroy, and you may succeed, someday, but for now the fight is on.

[A Ruckus of Dogs]

I have family in Europe and though they were all against the Iraq war, when that war in Bosnia was going on,they asked me when the Americans were going to come and do something about it. If that isn't an example of "convictionless", I don't know what is.

Too bad that dopey Clinton got us sucked into the idle foreign foolery of the Balkans.

[Red6]

Chamberlain (Spelling may be off). Need one say more?

America is culturally attached at the hip with the Brits/Irish. We speak the same language, share lots of history, religion etc. HOWEVER, they to are afflicted by the socialist movement/disease and subscribe to an appeasement approach.

Margaret Thatcher reversed some of that but even she is hated by a lot of her own people!

Look at the BBC and other British media. They DO subscribe to appeasement and they DO believe is a social state. They DO behave that way and as ALL nations who embrace socialism their state and economy went into the dumpster. Their great empire was “appeased” away.

I think the UK is tied to the US like no other country. We are strategic allies of the uttermost degree. We like each other as a people and work well together. However, the American is more like the stereo typical “Texan”. Bush, Cheney ARE good examples of what we are (Not new, Reagan was labeled a sword rattler), and Europe hates that aspect about us, even though it is this culture, this capitalistic, free thought, less government, individualistic and large personality which made us what we are. We ARE “cowboys”, something that we are often called and this is supposed to be negative when they say it (Many in the US would see this as a compliment, and that’s no joke).

Red6

[norton]

No one has called British, Spanish and Polish soldiers cowards; you are 'debating' a false premise.

Clue: when Germany &/or Japan attacked GB, France, and the US each country fought. No one jumped in to save Poland or Shanghai, none of the three western allies tried to stop Hitler before he'd already hit stride.

Notes:
France folded, collaborated, and when restored they hated us.
When Germany invaded France it was not (yet)a matter of "the might of the amazing German forces (regardless of their disgusting leaders)" - large parts of their armor were pillaged from their earlier (smaller) victims and their air support depended on the lack of French opposition to be effective.

The population of the US in the late thirties identified two primary 'minorities' - British and German. There was a huge & open debate on this side of the oceans, one that was only decided when Germany's ally attacked us. We went to war the same way you did, having been attacked (in the case of UK, seeing that it was next to be attacked).
The 'big three' had a monster defensive line (readily ignored by the Germans), a 20-plus mile wide moat, and in our case both oceans keeping them away from the next threat - and none of them worked in the end.

We, however, set aside our own wounds (and much more recent/real/obvious enemy) to fight the war first in Europe and only hope that we'd have some help if we'd had to go full tilt against Japan.

[Jaxter]

"..to suggest that Britain is a nation of appeasers is wrong.."

I never suggested that. I said that Chamberlain was an appeaser. Churchill certainly wasn't.

"..Germans nearly broke through at The battle of the Bulge."

The key word there is nearly.

"To suggest Britain had no victories before the US got involved.."

I never suggested that either. I said that prior to the real war starting in May of 1940 there were no real victories. I personally think that the Battle of Britain was one of the greatest victories in history.

"To somehow denigrate a nation who was fighting fascism in the Pacific.."

Who exactly was the UK fighting in the Pacific prior to Pearl Harbor?

"Also, I wonder how the families of the dead British, Spanish and Polish soldiers who died fighting alongside the US soldiers in Iraq will feel about being called cowards by their allies."

I've never heard anyone say a bad word against any soldiers that are fighting on our side. The Germans and the French on the other hand are no good pukes.

[Slipperduke]

Brian Allen didn't call British soldiers cowards, but he did suggest to this chap that they were only fighting and dying, "in your dreams". You can understand the angry response.

[vincenzzo]

Speaking in general of course, I do not believe that the EU, the UN, and the "global leftist community", governments, and the global press, are cowards at all. Nor are they wimps.

You are simply fighting a proxy war, using OBL, Saddam and Sons, Arafat, and the Islamic cults, to defeat US and Israeli power.

For decades the Islamic cults have been roaming the globe murdering innocents, with impunity, all the while Europe, and the "global community", have rationalized this behavior and attitude as the victimhood of, "occupation", "humiliation", and "oppression".

Sure, arrests are made, but no serious repudiation against these cults, only Israel and the US are repudiated as evil, mendacious, devious, and sinister. (I have seen no "marches" against OBL and Saddam and Sons)

Only on 9/11, for about a week you "loved" us, of course it's typical to love us ONLY when we are dying.

Most Americans know who has defended OBL, Saddam and Arafat for 30 years now.

And most Americans know exactly who supports them in Iraq and around the world.

US power is what you seek to destroy, and you may succeed, someday, but for now the fight is on.


Ah, why does that remind me of the way the nazis were talking of Jews: them being a sinister force behind the confusing variety of problems, and fighting a proxy war against the fatherland? Paranoia reversed..

Let's be real: the EU is not fighting a proxy war, not against the US, not against Israel, not against anyone: we are occupied with ourselves ATM.
What is true is that disappointment with America has taken over the role of driving force behind further European integration, post-Cold War. But which is not an aggressive momentum - on the contrary rather introverted and autistic. If American unilateralism helps build the EU, I can live with that.
The countertrend, and the only danger I do see is that too many European politicians are striving to emulate the US in foreign policy. They want to imitate someone who's hell-bound on repeating the mistakes we've already made in past centuries; ruining ourselves morally, financially, and physically in the process.
They want to "project power" in remote areas because the US are doing it, and because the US are urging to take up more global "responsibility". I fear that Europe's ex-colonial powers will succeed in dragging us into post-colonial adventures, most likely in Africa for "humanitarian" reasons. That's what the EU Battle Groups will eventually end up being used for; bugged down in some ex-British, ex-French, ex-Belgian etc. colony.
I personally do not care about projecting power in Darfur or Biafra. I think a healthy dose of, yes, old American-style Isolationism would fit Europe just fine. We have our own problems to fix, and the European project being successful would be the greatest contribution we can make to global stability. We just completed, if I'm not mistaken, the largest peaceful expansion in history, others are knocking on the door: Turkey, Ukraine, Balkan countries. The EU is good at absorbing problems rather than attacking them, and based on compromise - not confrontation.
If everything is going well Turkey will a generation from now be the prosperous Muslim model democracy American troops are dispairingly trying to shoot into place in Iraq right now. That will also serve Israel.
What Israel can do until then IMHO is cut a just peace with Palestinians. By just peace I mean the Green Line, which every sane Israeli or Palestinian should be able to live with today. We can assist them, but we can and will not force them.

[vincenzzo]

Mostly German and UK.

It would really interest me what papers exactly you have in mind? The Guardian in the UK, I guess?

[vincenzzo]

I have family in Europe and though they were all against the Iraq war, when that war in Bosnia was going on,they asked me when the Americans were going to come and do something about it. If that isn't an example of "convictionless", I don't know what is. Too bad that dopey Clinton got us sucked into the idle foreign foolery of the Balkans.

I feel unwilling to take responsibility for the idea of creating a "Kingdom of Serbs, Croatians and Slovenians", later called Yugoslavia which actually was a Greater Serbia. A large part of Europe, as well as the US under Wilson's leadership, went to war to draw those, and other insane borders. With disastrous consequences for the rest of that darn century that ended with Clinton's wars. Your mistake as much as ours.

I did feel used though regarding the Kosovo war. What we accomplished was win a war over drug, cigarettes and women smuggling routes for the Albanian mafia. I'm still waiting for evidence of the Horseshoe Plan or whatever it was named (by the Bulgarian secret service I'm told) to be found.

[A Ruckus of Dogs]

What we accomplished was win a war over drug, cigarettes and women smuggling routes for the Albanian mafia.

You cannnot win wars agsinst drug smuggling, as the buyers do not consider themselves victims. As long as there is a demand there will be a supply, as we in the US are learning.

[David Hunter]

Clue: when Germany &/or Japan attacked GB, France, and the US each country fought. No one jumped in to save Poland or Shanghai, none of the three western allies tried to stop Hitler before he'd already hit stride.

Initially, Britain was not attacked by the NAZIs, it declared war on the NAZIs because they invaded Poland. Given that Poland was attacked by both NAZI Germany and the Soviet Union (Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, 1939) and that when it happened Britain still had a small peacetime army, (mass conscription wasn't introduced until 1940), then there wasn't a hell of a lot that British ground forces could do to help Poland during the invasion.

[roses of sharon]

Ah, you prove my point.

1) Eurosophists look upon us as paranoid Nazis...too funny.

2) It must be that Israel initiate "peace" on the green line, with a people who have been raised to murder a Jew and Christian on site.

3) The US, "shooting into place", "projecting power", going on "adventures", "colonizing", making "dangerous mistakes, ruining ourselves morally", "attacking" and "confrontational".

And as for the Islamic cults, OBL, Saddam, SA, Iran, ect, they get no mention in your State Dept white paper, as if America woke one morning, and out of the blue decided to embark upon an adventure.

Yes, it is obvious that the EU is occupied only with itself, and your only voiced "disappointments" are with America, nor do your vaunted compromising abilities extend to America. Nor do your statements of support, either in words, or deeds.

As I said and you confirmed, the EU is interested in building up itself, and your global "responsibility" does not extend to helping the US in Iraq, because you supported Saddam and Sons. Therefore you template right now is to temper American power.

We shall see if we can win in Iraq and Afghanistan, with the Europe's leftists governments, organizations, and media rooting for the other side. As I said the fight is on, and you admit you are not on our side.

[DB]

Yes.

The thing is, most terrorism is in our self interest to fight.

[Pagey]

What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians and directed against our free, open Western societies.

The only thing that could possibly open their eyes are 'large scale muslim aggressions' against the citizens and elected officials of Europe as a whole. Until that becomes widespread over there,their attitudes will not change, and that is rather unfortunate.

[Arpege92]

"I wonder how the families of the dead British, Spanish and Polish soldiers who died fighting alongside the US soldiers in Iraq will feel about being called cowards by their allies."

Probably the same way American families feel when EUROPEANS attack and call US soldiers terrorists, baby killers, thieves....and so on and so on. If Europe put as much effort into building a solid relationship with the United States as they do in terrorists countries, perhaps terrorism would decrease! It's amazing to sit and watch European leaders bending over and placing ones lips upon the lips of dictators!

I dislike the French greatly and it has nothing to do with race either. It has more to do with the back stabbing, the selling of weapons to Saddam while we were getting ready to go into Iraq, the bribes they recieved from Saddam at the expense of the Iraqi people. France is a big bully who's going to get a huge boot up the a$$ soon and they DESERVE IT!

[Arpege92]

"So we should only fight terrorism when our self interest is at stake?"

Terrorism is everyones problem. You act as if this is our problem alone and that we should be more grateful that other countries are fighting terrorism.

[Arpege92]

"The american people are different from it's government."

Wrong....when Bush is attacked, I take great offense because I voted for him! The government is the American people.