Posted on 01/06/2005 9:12:28 AM PST by missyme
I understand the definition of "invocation." That's why I said that I have spoken during the normal time of an invocation and explained what I said.
Of course I cannot invoke something I do not believe. I do believe, however, in the power of the human mind and in reason. If I am asked to offer an invocation, I do just what I said. And I've done it many dozens of times in a wide variety of situations.
So far, nobody's ever been bothered by it.
If they don't like the backlash they shouldn't have pushed so hard to the left beforehand.
Cost of 20th century Communism: 100 million dead
Cost of USA's "Right to Choose": 40 million dead
Cost of ending Bible reading from public schools: school shootings, rampant promiscuity
For 3000+ quotes by atheists on how bad the evidence is for evolution, big-bang cosmology, etc.
http://shop4.gospelcom.net/epages/AIGUS.storefront/en/product/10-2-086
It even has sections on atheists talking about the negative effects of humanistic thinking on society.
Jesus Christ is our only hope. May I love, forgive, and follow.
Communists.
Knew it.
That persons do not know evil. Evil is evil good is good G-D is good that persons do not know G-D. Thank you
Their fervor is just proving that humans seek religion:
They've made Liberalism their religion.
Of course, their god is the devil, whether they know it or not.
>> people who don't believe in God...
> Atheism...
Ahem: there are more people in the world who don't believe in God than just atheists.
> I am tired of having their religious zeal rammed down the throats of the rest of us.
Then imagine how tired *they* are. To do so, imagine that our currency said "There Is No God To Trust" instead of "In God We Trust."
"I cannot even imagine being in such a bizarre situation that an atheist would be asked to deliver an invocation. An atheist giving an "invocation" sounds like mental masturbation to me."
Not so bizarre. I've been an active member on many boards of directors and an officer of several organizations. All normally began their meetings with some sort of invocation. As a member, I've often come up in the rotation for delivering such a thing.
While most invocations ask some deity to protect the group and guide its decisions, mine were somewhat different. I always simply ask the group to carefully consider the issues that will be discussed and make their best decision, based on their assessment of the issues. I appeal to logic and intellect.
I never denigrate anyone's faith, and never would. I do not share any religious faith with them, but I do share a common concern for fairness and proper actions.
Not once, in all the times I've done this, has anyone objected to my words. It is not so bizarre.
This includes all athiests who don't believe in a higher power, i.e., God or that Jesus died for their sins...died in their place.
I wonder....is denying His existence, denying Him, the unforgiveable sin? Would make me think.
Well, perhaps here you have an opportunity to educate me. But since an atheist is one who by definition does not believe in God, I find it hard to understand how you can claim that there is such thing as a person who does not believe in God and yet is not an atheist. So please explain.
Then imagine how tired *they* are. To do so, imagine that our currency said "There Is No God To Trust" instead of "In God We Trust."
Well, let 'em start their OWN country and have their OWN currency. This one was started by people who universally believed in God (although not all were Christians).
And please don't give me that "separation of church and state" nonsense, since 1) there is no such thing in the Constitution, and 2) virtually everybody who was remotely connected with the framing of our government favored the public invocation of God's blessings at every opportunity.
Lastly, let us not forget that atheistic fanaticism killed and imprisoned more people in the 20th century than any religious doctrine ever has.
I would not term that an invocation. It's more of a statement of purpose for the meeting. I can appreciate an appeal for rationality, introspection and care (although I find the appeal somewhat superfluous at a meeting of serious minded people). But, if the meetings are usually begun with a legitimate invocation, I would personally request that your comments be followed by a proper prayer.
"I would not term that an invocation. It's more of a statement of purpose for the meeting. I can appreciate an appeal for rationality, introspection and care (although I find the appeal somewhat superfluous at a meeting of serious minded people). But, if the meetings are usually begun with a legitimate invocation, I would personally request that your comments be followed by a proper prayer."
I would not term it an invocation, either. It occurred at the time for the invocation, and always substituted for it. No harm done, and the meetings went on as usual.
I am an unbeliever. I sit on these boards or executive committees. When my turn comes to say a few words, I do so, and that has always seemed satisfactory to those I serve with. I see no problem. Your situation might vary from that. I don't know.
Not everyone is religious. It seems to me that there is a place for those who do not profess a religion, as much as there is for those who do. Apparently the people I work and serve with agree with me. There it is.
I understand.
> I find it hard to understand how you can claim that there is such thing as a person who does not believe in God and yet is not an atheist.
Agnostics do not believe in God.
Muslims do not believe in God (not yours, anyway)
Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, animists, etc. do not believe in God.
Remember, there is a difference between atheism ("I believe there is no god") and agnosticism ("I do not believe in god").
> let us not forget that atheistic fanaticism killed and imprisoned more people in the 20th century than any religious doctrine ever has.
Sorry, no... that was Communism. They bleated about Atheism, but they weren't. They simply replaced one god with another... that being the State (or the "historical dialectic," or whatever other drivel it was)
> is denying His existence, denying Him, the unforgiveable sin?
Seems unreasonable. How P.O.ed at *me* would *you* be if I said that I don't believe that you exist? That I think your postings are being made by someone else in your name?
Let's say someone had the FR user name of "God." (I'm sure someone has tried, maybe there is such a name... but I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment) Would you immediately call the person a liar, or would you immediately believe that the username was accurate?
This statement is not correct. Muslims believe in the God of the old testament. The first part of the Koran is the Torah, or old testament. So, they do believe in the same God. What they don't believe in is Jesus Christ. There is the difference.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.