Posted on 01/04/2005 12:24:26 PM PST by Keyes2000mt
The words were said countless thousands of times last year as a minister concluded the ceremony. "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder." But so often man and woman do.
While gay marriage has been roundly condemned in most churches (and rightly so), you will not hear much about divorce. In many cases, if divorce is discussed in church, it's talked about as this horrible circumstance that comes upon people, listed in the same breath as automobile accidents or serious illnesses.
The Bible is quite clear on the issue of divorce. Malachi 2:16 says it clearly, "For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that He hateth putting away (i.e. Divorce)..." Hate's a strong word and Christ reiterates this in the New Testament. Yet, in the church, even in Conservative churches, a man is more likely to feel uncomfortable with pierced ear than with a couple divorces behind him.
There's good reason why the church and conservatives are skittish about this topic. There's no one who doesn't know someone who's been divorced. They fill our church pews every Sunday. We know them to be decent folks who agree with us on a lot of cultural issues. Randall Terry, Newt Gingrich, and Rush Limbaugh have all been divorced.
We also know folks who have been victimized by their ex-spouse: abused, cheated on, and treated like dirt. Or, perhaps you dear reader have had a divorce where you weren't at fault and that you didn't choose.
On the other hand, most Christians know very few homosexuals and even less know homosexuals who'd like to get married. The odds of a pastor offending a large tither whose gay and wants to get married is quite small.
To say our current divorce rate is a national sin is not to say that all divorcees are to be condemned and treated as despicable outcasts. The church should be compassionate, but even as Christ said, "Go and sin no more," It must be proactive in dealing with divorce.
Divorce must be taught against strongly in the church. The church as a community should be dedicated to helping preserve the marriages of the church. Strengthening the marriages of believers should be considered as important if not more so than evangelism. Children of broken homes often wander spiritually and in many cases fall from faith. Thus, a large church may win 100 converts, but if it produces 40 broken homes in the same year that leads to 100 angry and embittered children, it is not truly building the Kingdom of God.
Also, church discipline should be used when appropriate for those who divorce without just cause and refuse reconciliation efforts. Watching Cornerstone Television, I saw former NFL player and Pastor of Antioch Bible Church Ken Hutcherson. He organized the Mayday for Marriage rally in Washington, DC opposing gay marriage. Call him anything you like, but don't call him a gay-hating hypocrite. Hutcherson said that in the past year, he'd censured five members of the church, including some for ending marriages without just cause.
The structure of most Protestant Churches is anti-authoritarian and the idea of church discipline is scary to most of us as we've heard horror stories about how cults have abused it. However, desperate times call for desperate measures and a biblical use of church discipline could aid in preserving marriages.
Secular Action
The devastating number of divorces is an area where the interests of church and state collide. Studies have shown that divorces lead to economic problems for states and communities, as well as the long term problems that come from children of broken marriages. It's no accident that the richest states are those with the lowest divorce rates.
The fact is that anyone who finds themselves in a bad marriage made a mistake at one time or another. Half the time, their biggest mistake was getting married in the first place. To prevent these bad matches or to help get the marriage off on a better start, marrying couples should be required to undergo several hours of marriage classes and/or marital counseling from a licensed minister or marriage counselor.
Secondly, no-fault divorce laws must be reformed. Marriage is the most important relationship a person has legally, yet it has all the force and effect of a month-to-month lease thanks to no-fault divorce laws. The laws should be reformed so a no-fault divorce can only be obtained if both parties consent. This would also reduce the court costs associated with issues of custody and division of the property as a no-fault divorce could only be obtained if both parties were agreed on it.
Those who believe in gay marriage have pointed to divorce as an argument against those who seek to protect marriage from same sex unions. I reject the argument that one evil prospering requires that we allow another blow to traditional family values. However, preserving the family is about more than one single issue and if we're going to be serious about it, we have to address all the issues that threaten the survival of the Family.
A thread of a thousand posts can have 5,000-10,000 views. One never knows the impact one is having.
A lot of good points.
I don't agree with every point.
I don't think Scripture is as plain and detailed on the matter as your pieces made it out to be.
And, I don't believe the Scripture was intended to be more than a rough outline.
The devil and/or redemptive compassion is in the details.
There's plenty statements of Christ to profer a lot of compassion and grace to many situations your interpretation would only offer stoning to.
It is wise to bring reasonable expectations to these threads! LOL.
uhhhhh, at the risk or repetition . . .
it is wise to bring reasonable expectations to these threads.
Whether his ilk would advocate beating or not . . .
there's plainly a certain element and degree of deadliness in the fierce letter of the law attitude and tone.
I keep hearing Christ say . . . let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
And I keep hearing those documents justify piles of stones.
"What he was saying was pure idiocy and very judgmental."
If you want to call it idiocy, then don't complain when the temperature of the rhetoric rises.
"Real Christians are loving, patient and kind..."
As when they call others' opinions "idiocy?"
"they do not try to stuff their "opinions" down others throats."
This is a discussion forum. People are allowed to express their opinions here. They are even allowed to express them strongly.
For that matter, rebuking sinners is one of the seven spiritual acts of mercy.
"I saw judgment against her because of decisions she believed to be right for her."
Christianity is not about people judging for themselves what's right "for them." It's about what God has told us is right. Even if you don't believe that, people are allowed to say it so long as the owner of the forum says they are.
"Is your religion the "religion of peace"?
Our Lord told us that he came to bring the sword.
"Women should just shut up and be smacked around in the name of God?"
I'm quite sure no one has said that, and that sort of misrepresentation is what set me off in the first place.
"Get off your high horse and step into the reality of life."
Oh, I think I've been around the block a couple of times.
I understand all those arguments.
I've heard them all my Christian life and all my professional career.
I still say . . . truthfully, honestly, factually . . .
I HAVE *******NEVER******* seen a case where the child was reared well according to the whole counsel of Scripture--which includes provoke not your children to wrath--I have never seen a child reared well become a poor adult or even have problems as an adult coming from chronically poor choices. I have NEVER seen it. It could theoretically happen. I have never seen it.
I've seen cases where people asserted it was true. Usually took me 3-5 questions to prove it wasn't true.
I agree that the number of children reared well is awesomely in the minority percentage in our era. However, Scripture is still true. Parents can still do it right and depend on God regarding the outcome.
PLEASE GET THE BOOK
ATTACHMENTS by Clinton and Sibcy to see what all doing it minimally right entails. If you are a parent with kids of any age--please run to get that book and read it ASAP and apply it ASAP. I'd pay you $1,000 to do it, ****IF**** I could.
LOL.
I think it's toooo serious a topic--the AC--to make crass jokes about--no one deserves such a slam but the AC.
On the other hand, LOL.
I think you've seen a lot more 'submissive wives' married to a lot more pastors out there than I have.
I see a lot of insecure, mentally askew; domineering; brazen; rash; battle axes married to wimp pastors and the church troubles resulting therefrom are horrid to observe.
Has your head been in the sand?
Evangelical pastors got out the conservative vote
SEVERAL ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE ABOVE ANY OTHER ELECTION IN OUR HISTORY.
Just a fact.
One might vainly hope that he couldn't be serious.
I believe he's serious. And, seriously off the wall.
I think Christ would walk away shaking HIS head from a theological discussion with our . . . threadmate.
My husband has spoken with him. This is one of those "pastors" who has started his own church, and so far as we know, there is no board.In real life, his day job is postal carrier! This man is of a breed our pastor calls "pastor kings".
aaaaarrrrrgggghhh.
It would be difficult and of debatable value . . . but one could research out who he associates with--who he spends his time with. If anyone has any influence in his life at all--and get them to understand the facts. Sounds like he's an idiot pure and simple and a vain glorious--probably hypocritical idiot as well. Sigh.
Sorry for such a mess! God help you each. Prayers.
"Add me to the list of "helpers"...Oh! and I'd like a window seat in smoking also. Hell, by the time we get there, we'll all be smoking anyway. LOL"
Reservations made. How right you are about us all smoking, but what the hay, it won't kill you then....LOL! Added you to the tag team.
Boy, do you have that right. All the emphasis is placed on the precise handling of the door once the bovines have exited: divorce made easier, or harder.
What needs to be made harder, IMHO, is getting married.
Dan
Biblical Christianity web site
Biblical Christianity message board
Biblical Christianity BLOG
Well said! I doubt you got through to them, and I don't think "they've seen the light", but maybe you have given them something to think about.
Look, guys, divorce is sometimes necessary, but it's a tragedy when it happens. God didn't intend for it to happen, but, if one of the spouses screws things up, the other one needs an out. Divorce is that out. And Jesus and the apostles ade it clear that it is allowed under the right circumstances.
Divorce is never between 2 people. It affects generations and children are treated the worst.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.