Posted on 01/04/2005 12:24:26 PM PST by Keyes2000mt
The words were said countless thousands of times last year as a minister concluded the ceremony. "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder." But so often man and woman do.
While gay marriage has been roundly condemned in most churches (and rightly so), you will not hear much about divorce. In many cases, if divorce is discussed in church, it's talked about as this horrible circumstance that comes upon people, listed in the same breath as automobile accidents or serious illnesses.
The Bible is quite clear on the issue of divorce. Malachi 2:16 says it clearly, "For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that He hateth putting away (i.e. Divorce)..." Hate's a strong word and Christ reiterates this in the New Testament. Yet, in the church, even in Conservative churches, a man is more likely to feel uncomfortable with pierced ear than with a couple divorces behind him.
There's good reason why the church and conservatives are skittish about this topic. There's no one who doesn't know someone who's been divorced. They fill our church pews every Sunday. We know them to be decent folks who agree with us on a lot of cultural issues. Randall Terry, Newt Gingrich, and Rush Limbaugh have all been divorced.
We also know folks who have been victimized by their ex-spouse: abused, cheated on, and treated like dirt. Or, perhaps you dear reader have had a divorce where you weren't at fault and that you didn't choose.
On the other hand, most Christians know very few homosexuals and even less know homosexuals who'd like to get married. The odds of a pastor offending a large tither whose gay and wants to get married is quite small.
To say our current divorce rate is a national sin is not to say that all divorcees are to be condemned and treated as despicable outcasts. The church should be compassionate, but even as Christ said, "Go and sin no more," It must be proactive in dealing with divorce.
Divorce must be taught against strongly in the church. The church as a community should be dedicated to helping preserve the marriages of the church. Strengthening the marriages of believers should be considered as important if not more so than evangelism. Children of broken homes often wander spiritually and in many cases fall from faith. Thus, a large church may win 100 converts, but if it produces 40 broken homes in the same year that leads to 100 angry and embittered children, it is not truly building the Kingdom of God.
Also, church discipline should be used when appropriate for those who divorce without just cause and refuse reconciliation efforts. Watching Cornerstone Television, I saw former NFL player and Pastor of Antioch Bible Church Ken Hutcherson. He organized the Mayday for Marriage rally in Washington, DC opposing gay marriage. Call him anything you like, but don't call him a gay-hating hypocrite. Hutcherson said that in the past year, he'd censured five members of the church, including some for ending marriages without just cause.
The structure of most Protestant Churches is anti-authoritarian and the idea of church discipline is scary to most of us as we've heard horror stories about how cults have abused it. However, desperate times call for desperate measures and a biblical use of church discipline could aid in preserving marriages.
Secular Action
The devastating number of divorces is an area where the interests of church and state collide. Studies have shown that divorces lead to economic problems for states and communities, as well as the long term problems that come from children of broken marriages. It's no accident that the richest states are those with the lowest divorce rates.
The fact is that anyone who finds themselves in a bad marriage made a mistake at one time or another. Half the time, their biggest mistake was getting married in the first place. To prevent these bad matches or to help get the marriage off on a better start, marrying couples should be required to undergo several hours of marriage classes and/or marital counseling from a licensed minister or marriage counselor.
Secondly, no-fault divorce laws must be reformed. Marriage is the most important relationship a person has legally, yet it has all the force and effect of a month-to-month lease thanks to no-fault divorce laws. The laws should be reformed so a no-fault divorce can only be obtained if both parties consent. This would also reduce the court costs associated with issues of custody and division of the property as a no-fault divorce could only be obtained if both parties were agreed on it.
Those who believe in gay marriage have pointed to divorce as an argument against those who seek to protect marriage from same sex unions. I reject the argument that one evil prospering requires that we allow another blow to traditional family values. However, preserving the family is about more than one single issue and if we're going to be serious about it, we have to address all the issues that threaten the survival of the Family.
Not sure whom you're speaking to about which part of the above.
I'm not attracted to dialogue by shrillness etc.
I don't think you have lack of intellect in considering Jesus' words. If you have a hard time LISTENING to Holy Spirit unfold THE WORD to you, as God to tweak up the process and your understanding, hearing.
From where I sit, your position, tone, wording etc. sound a LOT more like the pharisees of Jesus dusty pathed days than they sound like Jesus. You might ask HIM if that's right and where it's right.
I don't think you'd listen to me for 2 microseconds.
I don't believe God expected generally stated rules to be minute prescriptions in all situations etc. He did leave us HIS SPIRIT AND HIS WISDOM AND HIS LOVE IF we will avail ourselves.
Doesn't mean loosey goosey at all. Also doesn't mean harsh, narrow, rigid, prissy, meat axe Christianity.
His standards are important. But it's just as important that they be applied out of HIS HEART as well as HIS JUSTICE. AND HIS WORD DECLARES that HIS MERCY triumphs over His justice.
Frankly, Frank, I couldn't care less about your opinion. Walk a mile in my shoes before you deign to judge me. The existence of self-righteous prigs such as yourself confirms the danger of legislating private moral choices.
Hmmmmm...this is my post:
To: anniegetyourgun
ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD....including those at Renew America.
Always a good reminder. Thank you.
150 posted on 01/04/2005 1:39:32 PM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Governor Rossi was robbed.) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]
I wouldn't presume to speak for Howlin, but I find it truly bizarre that you would characterize my post the way you did. There must be something more to it than that, because no one who understands Christianity would deny the truth of that statement.
Since you claim to print out these post and read them at leisure, how about scanning through them and see if you can come up with ANY scripture I quoted. Then post them here.
Of course, if you can't, you're bearing false witness.
I'm thinking re-tread. I don't know this person, but typically when someone new grossly distorts something I've said in an effort to attack or criticize me, they've got some kind of past issues.
Just a guess.
Well, given your comments, I went back to read 1-150 to see what it was that I said that was worthy of your notice. I made one comment, and it certainly wasn't directed at anyone but myself and my husband, so I can't understand what I said that offended you enough to include me in your missive. So, I presume you must have read further on. In that case, perhaps you should have read the entire thread if you are going to single folks out and take them to task over our contributions to the moral sewer that is American society.
I would like to know, specifically, what it was that I said that caused you to include me in your comments. Then, perhaps I can more accurately defend myself against them, which so far, seem to be unwarranted, at least in my case. I leave the others alone, since they have defended themselves quite well without my help. :)
Exactly, there is a big difference between duty and stupidity. To stay in a horrible marriage (sans children etc) just out of 'duty' mocks marriage- making it into a nasty, vile trap where once you go, you are punished for every sin ever committed.
I am widowed, but I do understand the hell of a very bad marriage. My parents didn't divorce, I wish they had. A bad life is a bad life, no matter how you try to dress it up.
My parents got divorced when I was 14. I can honestly say it was better for everyone involved, including me. Actually, the only one who did suffer was my dad, but he had it coming to him. If he would have cared as much about my mom before the divorce as he did after, it would have never happened.
Wow,Frank---why don't you tell us how you really feel?
If you have a hard time LISTENING to Holy Spirit unfold THE WORD to you, as[k] God to tweak up the process and your understanding, hearing.
That is a pretty subjective standard. How do I know it is me having a hard time LISTENING to Holy Spirit unfold THE WORD to me, and not you?
I don't think you'd listen to me for 2 microseconds.
Try me. Since you say Jesus' words regarding marriage/divorce/remarriage need some additional unfolding by the Spirit, maybe you are the Spirit's way of guiding me to the truth. What do you think Jesus intended in his teaching on marrige/divorce/remarriage?
His standards are important. But it's just as important that they be applied out of HIS HEART as well as HIS JUSTICE. AND HIS WORD DECLARES that HIS MERCY triumphs over His justice.
Paul has a word for you about justifying sin by claiming grace will cover it. Rom 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"
I think the evidence is abundant that you'd not listen to me for 2 microseconds.
Thanks anyway for the invite.
I'll content myself with praying that Holy Spirit leads you (and me) into all truth as He was sent to do.
BTW, I'm not justifying any sin by claiming that grace will cover it.
I don't appreciate your words in my fingers.
I do assert that your construction on sin in the marriage realm and God's are likely not 100% identical.
Re-tread? I agree.
nice rant!
I agree whole heartedly.
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