[Southack]

"Yet Bush is already signaling that he intends to revive the amnesty/guestworker immigration plan..."

David Frum gets it all wrong from the get go. It isn't an amnesty plan. Amnesty was what President Reagan gave to over 1 million illegal aliens in the 1980's (and you see how much that "hurt" his popularity).

President Bush's plan is a plea bargain. Confusing a plea bargain with an amnesty is a sign of an uneducated mind (or a mind that prefers propaganda to honest debate).

Illegals, under Bush's plan, have to register with the federal government, they have to register their family, and they have to register their employer. Then they have to pay a fine. Moreover, they aren't eligible for citizenship under Bush's plan (they would have to apply under existing legal programs for that, hardly something to fault Bush for)...and they have to self-deport themselves after three years if they want to renew their blue card work permit.

So what do we legal American citizens get? We get 8 million currently anonymous illegals to suddenly come in from the cold to REGISTER with our federal government. Instead of having to task massive law enforcement resources to track down anonymous criminals, suddenly our government knows where 8 million illegals live and work, specifically.

What else do we get? By registering their employers, we suddenly get a way to enforce our minimum wage laws...and we remove a wage incentive for hiring an illegal over an American willing to work for Minimum Wage (e.g. a teenager).

That's a far cry from President Reagan's amnesty.

President Bush's plan is good. It's being deliberately mischaracterized, however.

Well, here's a good rule of thumb: if your opponent has to lie or mischaracterize in order to make a point, then 9 times out of 10 your opponent is on the losing and immoral side of an issue.

In this case, why do opponents of President Bush's plan have to mischaracterize it as being an "amnesty?" Can they not make their logical arguments against that plan based strictly upon the merits (or lack thereof) to that plan? Why must they call what is clearly a plea bargain an "amnesty?" Such dishonesty weakens their arguments against this plan.

[Torie]

they have to self-deport themselves after three years if they want to renew their blue card work permit.

How does that work exactly? What are the details? You know, it would be a good idea if somebody found a link to the bullet point details of the Bush proposal, so that we can refer to it.

[jpsb]

"Illegals, under Bush's plan, have to register with the federal government, they have to register their family, and they have to register their employer. Then they have to pay a fine. Moreover, they aren't eligible for citizenship under Bush's plan (they would have to apply under existing legal programs for that, hardly something to fault Bush for)...and they have to self-deport themselves after three years if they want to renew their blue card work permit."

Actually that does not sound to bad, but I have not seen any details yet.

We will not solve this problem without giving Law Enforcement the tools it needs to convict employers, lacks of LE tools is what doomed Reagan 86 bill. We will need either forgery prove national ID card or a national database to enforce any crack down on employers. I am not a big fan of either, but I can't see any other solution.

[AndyJackson]

we suddenly get a way to enforce our minimum wage laws...and we remove a wage incentive for hiring an illegal over an American willing to work for Minimum Wage

In most major metropolitan areas I suspect that this is a bit of a myth. Illegals working construction, I would guess, are getting paid a lot more than minimum wage. You need a lot more than minimum wage in major metropolitan areas just to put a roof over your head and feed yourself.

[hchutch]

Agreed. Excellent post.

[hchutch]

Because the truth would discredit them even more?

[JustAnotherSavage]

There are about 100 republican congresspeople who would call Bush's plan "Amnesty", like this one:

It appears that Rep. Wally Herger, Ca (R) sure thinks it’s an AMNESTY.
______________________________________________________
Congress of the United States
House of Representatives
Washington, DC 20515-0502

Dec. 14, 2004

Dear [Constituent];
Thank you for contacting me regarding efforts to grant amnesty to aliens illegally living in the United States. I value your point of view, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

Legislation has been proposed to allow a blanket amnesty to those persons who have chosen to unlawfully enter the United States and who have stayed despite laws, which prohibit this behaviour.

This proposal causes me great concern. Most of us were immigrants to this country at some time in our family’s past. This does not, however, justify rewarding the illegal activity of contemporary migrants with instant citizenship. While many thousands of legal aliens wait extremely long periods of time (often up to nine years)
for their immigration status to be processed lawfully, it would be unfair and unwise of us to grant amnesty to those who have betrayed our trust and have broken our laws.

I have successfully fought in the past to pass legislation that fundamentally reformed our immigration system, and I will continue to fight toward this end. Illegal immigration costs California taxpayers alone over $3 billion each year. While our reforms have made a critical first step toward reducing this burden, our job is far from complete. As Congress considers any Administration amnesty request, we will need to make some though decisions about the effectiveness of such a program on reducing illegal immigration into the United States..............

Sincerely,
Wally Herger
Member of Congress
____________________________________
Congressional Switchboard: 1-877-762-8762
Find your reps at www.house.gov

[Sam the Sham]

Have to register ? Or else what ? If we can't track them now what reason is there to believe we will then ?

Put a tracking system into place first. You don't build a corral after you've bought the horses.

[Fatalis]

Illegals, under Bush's plan, have to register with the federal government, they have to register their family, and they have to register their employer.

Where is the requirement that they register their families?

Moreover, they aren't eligible for citizenship under Bush's plan (they would have to apply under existing legal programs for that, hardly something to fault Bush for).

Without being legalized the illegals can't apply for green cards and citizenship at all. So, the Bush amnesty would enable legalized illegal aliens to apply for green cards and citizenship.

How else, without being legalized by President Bush, would they be eligible for citizenship?

[txdoda]

Illegals, under Bush's plan, have to register with the federal government, they have to register their family, and they have to register their employer.

LOL......the mexican gov't can't even get all our illegals to *register*, I guess, they're still pushing those sham ID cards here.

LOL......and you *know* all illegal employers now want to register ??

Then they have to pay a fine.

Pay your *mordida* & the US gov't will allow you to *legally* line jump. (AGAIN)

and they have to self-deport themselves

and their *anchor babies* too ??? they don't obey our laws now, why would they *then* ???

So what do we legal American citizens get? We get 8 million currently anonymous illegals....

who come next January will be able to file *legally* for 8 million (plus) child tax credits & fat EIC checks, (compliments of the US taxpayers).

[Matchett-PI]

bttt