Posted on 12/30/2004 5:47:21 PM PST by Mr. Mulliner
Daniel Lapin BTTT
SPOTREP - Survive
Good post cyborg, the clarity and insight of writings by orthodox Jews always impresses me.
Sorry Mulliner, but this time Lapin is WRONG, somewhat.
He does not address the many times in Scripture when a disaster IS caused by God's judgement vs. man's sin.
Nor does he (well, of course, he is a non-believing rabbi) tackle the many NT verses about God's sovereignty.
God may not be to blame, bad word to use, but if this is outside of God's plan then He is most assuredly NOT sovereign and all powerful. Hey, i don't have the answers to the troubling questions (there have been many millions more who died this century in much bigger disaster than this too) but we beome Deists when God is deemed to have little or no control over the weather or forces of Nature. I can't justify God, but then again He doesn't need my justification.
I don't disagree with Lapin's remarks about Western culture and medicine, etc., and how we've learned to fight vs. disasters. I object when Lapin write this
Lapin wrote:
God runs this world with as little supernatural interference as possible.
Hebrews 1 says (paraphrase) he upholds ALL things with the word of His power.
Ephesians says he works ALL things after the counsel of His own will.
Even Amos said "Can disaster come upon a city unless the Lord brings it?" (paraphrase)
You are so right.
I take exception to this statement by the Rabbi: We knew we were pleasing God by making ourselves safer and more secure and this knowledge lent added urgency and meaning to our efforts which then seemed to be blessed.
Kind of goes against the verse, "For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God". What is pleasing to God is His Son, Jesus Christ, which the Rabbi doesn't believe in.
Truth is,........there are 'angelic' wars ongoing.......
:-(
:-)
glad you posted before I did; you hit my thoughts also.
it is not possible, absent a prophet, to know why precisely the event happened....we should be rather careful with speculation, also, because if it happened because "they are sinners" that gives us in the US a rather false sense of righteousness and hope because we are comparatively disaster free....that said, we do know from Scripture (Both OT and NT) that God is absolutely sovereign. In that sense, He did, in fact, "cause" it. The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away, Blessed be the name of the Lord. Beyond that, I have no comment. We will simply strive to help those in the wake of the disaster, better build up the defenses we have in this country against such, and pray that it doesn't happen again. The good Rabbi's response is a bit different, and I don't take any comfort in it....by protecting God from the "blame" for this event, he says that God really is pretty far removed from here and now, where the action is. What comfort is left for us, then?
Read Deut 28-29. God said, "I've set before you this day life and death, blessing and cursing - now YOU choose".
GOD cannot force people to choose HIM - he's not a tyrant.
At this delving into the "How could God do this?" question strikes me as little more than mental masturbation.
I don't agree with everything he says but I prefer him to Harold Kusher.
Southeast Asia had opportunity and forewarning available to prevent this level of catastrophe.
They couldn't prevent the tsunami, however they had several hours after the initial earthquake to evacuate if there had been inexpensive warning procedures in place.
Tsunamis are common in that region. For some reason they didn't prioritize preparing for natural and expected events by organizing tsunami evacuation procedures.
Now, if fire and brimstone had supernaturally rained down from the sky, that would speak for itself...
Kenya seems to be the only country that did that.
Teaches what? What exactly do we need to learn that cost 100,000+ lives?
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Praise GOD that...
LOVE is the Only Reality and that...
GOD is LOVE.
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Here is how I look at it. I may be wrong but it is the only way I can really comprehend what has happened.
The Lord God used to make and destroy cities and nations depending on their moral fibre. He destroyed Sodom and Gomorah and the cities of the plain. Then he delt only with the nations surrounding Israel and gave the others up to a "reprobate mind."
He chose not to destroy Nineveh after they repented at the preaching of Jonah and later brought about the captivity of Israel and Judah due to their sins.
Then things changed. Christ came into the world to die for the sins of the world.
The Apostle PAUL said "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them...llChor 5:19
He is not destroying nations now but he does allow the natural physics of the world to continue. That is why we still have typhoons, tornados and tidal waves.
If man builds a city in harm's way or on the edge of the tectonic plates it is not God's fault that the city is destroyed when the plates shift or a tidal wave or if terrorists fly a plane into the city's buildings.
We don't know when or how our life will end and this is why it is important to accept Christ NOW. Redeem the time because the days are evil.
Some may not agree but that's ok. I can handle it. God cannot be blamed for this.
I like the Rabbi's approach to this and other disasters, if God wished, He could have ordained that each and every person killed in this disaster was guilty of some particular sin and that for each one who survived, his/her sin was not so great, or was somehow mitagated. But this very close and personal concept denies our free will to make choices that result in our personal survival. As the Rabbi says, it is arrogant of us to put this tradgedy at the feet of the dead, but the countries involved could look to their preparedness and determine if their policies should not be changed. That God is more removed should not reduce your comfort level, because it is by your choices that you are able to draw closer.
Yes, but Jesus also says in the Scripture;
...he makes his sun to shine on bad and good people alike, and gives rain to those who do good and to those who do evil.
So which of us can say that a disaster like this is a judgement for sin?
"That God is more removed should not reduce your comfort level, because it is by your choices that you are able to draw closer."
I guess that is the debate, isn't it?
Respectfully, I would say that I used to have that view. But, quite simply, after a significant amount of due diligence, I was convinced that that view is not the Biblical one. Then I found out that the views of the Reformers were in line with what I understand to be the Biblical position. Perhaps that is at the root of the discussion here. Sola gratia, sola scriptura, sola fide.
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