Posted on 12/30/2004 2:08:16 PM PST by Marine Inspector
"ALL Fanatics are dangerous." Agreed...
"Christian countries generally go to war to help other countries or to answer a threat, they do not seek to CONVERT, KILL or ENSLAVE."
Now yes, it appears for the moment that Christianity has grown out of it. It appears for the moment that the leaders of the Christian sects are not fanatics, or the ones that could become dangerous are taken out early, such as Jim Jones in Guyana, Vernon Howell in Waco.
"... and Somalia's quest to kill, convert or enslave any Somali that is not Muslim...."
Somalia is listed as being over 99.5% Muslim already, so their civil war is against whom ?
http://www.grc-exchange.org/info_data/record.cfm?id=157
North v. South, ,8 million people, 80,000 bon-Muslim, and they are being forced to fight, switch or flee.
Good one Jan...
I agree with Ernest Renan. Muslims are captives of a cult called islam.
How are we going to free them?
And, isn't that what GWB is trying to achieve? Democracy in Afghanistan, Democracy in Iraq...etc., Freedom! Freedom to vote for their leaders, and remove the power of the imams and the mullahs over the people.
Yes, let us continue to remember our troops and pray for the upcoming elections in Iraq!
Remember Happy's tagline? It is so very very true.
Islam hates democracy! Democracy is the antidote to the poison that islam is.
Pray for the troops, pray for GWB. Pray for Democracy!
"North v. South, ,8 million people, 80,000 bon-Muslim, and they are being forced to fight, switch or flee."
Boy those 80,000 must be one hell of a group of fighters to keep a civil war going for how many years against 8 million ?
I've found figures of 5,000 civilian deaths a month - which means all of them would be dead in a year - but I have found NO information regarding this being any kind of war against the infidels... any links ?
sorry it took so long to get back to you, i was away...who believes what?
what do you mean?
"After almost 48 hours, this could be starting again, 3 weeks and 13,311 posts!"
lol
"Let us continue to remember our troops and pray for the upcoming elections in Iraq."
Former DEMOCRAT State Sen. Wadie P. Deddeh, who immigrated from Iraq and and became a naturalized citizens years ago, decidend NOT to vote in the Iraqi elections. His excuse appears to be that two round trips, totalling 400 miles, to register and then to cast his vote was TOO FAR TO DRIVE.
So much for how important Democrats think the right to vcte is...
( off topic I know, but I thought it might interest some here )
Here you are asking us to look to Ernest Renan for wisdom... Ernest Renan who wrote of Jesus as nothing more than a wandering preacher, who was brilliant but not at all divine. Ernest Renan who claimed that Christ's appearances after the resurrection were nothing more than hopeful visions of excitable disciples. Ernest Renan who believed that the book of Daniel was a hoax. Ernest Renan who believed in no afterlife.
Wow. I've been told on FR that I have no soul for saying less than that!
On the other hand, the quote you cite is interesting in that it brings up the question that Fred Nerks alludes to: what is meant by "liberating" someone from Islam (the translation is probably straightforward from the French, but I'm asking what does it mean to us?)
Do we mean "convert" them...or what? Do we assume that "Democratic" Muslims will vote out Islam--or just vote to institutionalize it more?
Important questions, I think, even if I don't state them eloquently.
And the comments made by others were similar to comments made in Nazi Germany during the 1930s, so the Adolf comment seemed to be directly comparable. I don't believe Chemist_Geek is Muslim any more than I believe others on this board are Nazi, or even fascist, or even apologists for the fascists. I believe we are all Americans or lovers of America who are in disagreement over the best way to preserve our culture. "Abdul" was an unnecessary...it added nothing to the discussion.
Until Blue haired dowagers from Indiana ...
Or short-haired veterans in Oklahoma City...
...pictures of Muslims celebrating the deaths on 9/11 by dancing in the streets of Gaza, Jordan, Baghdad and elsewhere.
What does this have to do with a woman from Brooklyn? Yeah, a Thoroughbred and a Clydesdale are both horses, but I don't see the latter in the Kentucky Derby. You need to select your inclusion criteria more approriately. :-)
Fingerprinting is a small price to pay to increase safety and ensure security, legislate it and see how the American public feels.
I will fight this attempt at a Constitutional amendment and a reversal of our whole system of justice--going from "requiring a reason" to "casting a net"...but at least you recognize the need for legislation and don't seem to advocate violation of regulations as was done in this case.
I still, however, don't understand what you think would be accomplished by fingerprinting these people.
It is easieer to fix hurt feelings than bodies blown into dust, as the 1500 or so survivors who don't even have a hair of a loved one to bury.
I am not at all minimizing the horrific situation of the condition of remains and of the threat of future losses (just because I don't wear it on my sleeve, don't assume I haven't experienced 9/11 and its aftermath very personally). And I don't minimize your fear. But the loss of our American system is a far greater loss than "hurt feelings." Many Americans have given their lives to preserve our system of justice and fairness. If you are not willing to face a slight risk yourself in order to protect American values and to honour those who have sacrificed in their name, then I'm afraid no rational argument will convince you to change your mind.
"Desperate times sometimes call for disparate measures".
I've pondered this extensively since you posted. It's a cute play on the original saying, but I'm not sure that it's any more correct--except for the "sometimes" in there....which makes it totally useless as a guide.
What disparate measures would be taken--both leniency and death penalty? Borders and interior? It seems to me that usually when one is desperate, concentration on a single measure is best, not dispersing your effort with disparate ones.
Similarly, it's fallacious reasoning to think that one should change tactics just because of a loss. You sound like the coach of a championship team who'd abandon a game plan just because the opponent scored. Enemy successes don't mean you're not taking the best possible approach--we must accept that some losses will likely be inevitable if we are to win this fight!
The authorities can do anything they like with "Muslims", as far as I am concerned. This religion has proven itself the enemy of freedom and the ideals of the United States, and it's a miracle that the "religion" hasn't been banned as a cult and a threat, which it is.
When any group of people, calling itself anything they want, kills and murders in the name of their "beleif" that ceases to be a "religion" in my vieww, and becomes a "cause", and when that cause is directed againt me and my family, it then becomes the "enemy".
To thinbk otherwise is an excercize in professional self-victimization and suicide. I sincerely think the Muslimn "religion" is antithetical to the founding ideals and values of America, and would like to see the religion banned from this country.
The Republic of Somaliland and Puntland, two local governments, have made Islam the official religion and have imposed shari'a law. Due to old customs and past laws, proselytizing by non-Muslims is considered a crime. Non-Muslims are generally viewed with suspicion though Christian relief agencies are allowed to work in the country.
There is no constitution and thus no legal protection for religious freedom.(from:http://www.persecution.org/Countries/somalia.html)
Actually the number may be smaller according to this story:Somali church leader concerned about situation of Christians at http://www.episcopalchurch.org/3577_17777_ENG_HTM.htm
Here's a quote from the article:
Somalia's few Christians are being oppressed and living in fear of being killed, Abdi said. "We do not walk openly proclaiming our faith because we can be assassinated anytime. We pray on Fridays in Somalia just like [Muslims], since they will not allow us to attend church on Sunday." Church structures erected in colonial times and shortly after the country's independence have collapsed.
BTW sorry they are all cut and paste, I don't post links very often.
This link adds more: http://www.christianpersecution.info/features/somali-christians-missionaries-murdered.html titled Somali Christians and Missionaries Murdered, those murdered this past year included Sister Annalena Tonneli, murdered October 5, and was known as "The Mother Theresa of Africa".
The Barnabas Fund said "the attacks appear to be deliberately anti-Christian and anti-Western," and are likely linked to radical Somali Islamist group, Kulanka Culimada, which threatened with violence earlier this year. (from the above link)
Actually, I think I'll post it as a new thread.
I was thinking of the Sudan, not Somalia, my mistake.
Try this link:http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Leejaywalker/muslim_vs_muslim.htm
Ever hear of the Crusades? They fit right into your above statement. As such, Christianity ceased to be a “religion” and became a “cause.”
Interesting link ... from it
"Not all groups agree on how we are interpreting the sharia, but we believe there is wide latitude. We have chosen a moderate way, like the Koran itself, and so the sharia in Sudan will be moderate."
"There is also no doubt that the Sudanese model is under attack for its moderate interpretation of Islam. In February, 1994, for example, extremist gunmen opened fire in the al-Thwarah mosque in Omdurman, Sudan. They killed nineteen people and wounded twenty others. 'New African' magazine reported that the Muslim extremists involved "showed that they did not think that the government of General Omar Al-Bashir was sufficiently fundamentalist for them."
??? Fanatic Islamics killing people ( other muslims ) who don't agree with them ??? Who'da thunk it ?
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