State Sees Instant Results in Electronic Gun Checks

NY Times ^ | December 25, 2004 | FOX BUTTERFIELD

[neverdem]

WOBURN, Mass., Dec. 24 - When Massachusetts this month became the first state to install an electronic instant-check system complete with a fingerprint scanner for gun licenses and gun purchases, the impact was quickly apparent.

On Wednesday, for example, moments after a court placed a woman's husband under a restraining order, a notice about the order popped up on a new computer terminal at the police station here. Given that information, the Woburn police went to the man's house and confiscated his guns, all 13 of them.

The computer is part of the record-check system and allows the police and gun stores to learn right away if a person can legally own or buy a firearm. The system provides instant updates on arrest warrants, restraining orders and convictions, and it links fingerprint scanners and computers at gun stores and police departments with a central database.

Under Massachusetts law, anyone wanting to buy a gun must first obtain a license from the local police department. Now, when a person applies for the license or goes to buy a gun, his fingerprints can be checked electronically to verify his identity.

"This is a quantum leap in improving public safety and also making it quicker for people to buy a firearm," said Edward A. Flynn, the Massachusetts secretary of public safety. The new computer system was developed by the state's Criminal History Systems Board, part of Mr. Flynn's office.

Philip Mahoney, the police chief in Woburn, a city of 38,000 people just north of Boston, said the new system was particularly valuable because "we get notified in real time about any new restraining orders, warrants and arrests."

Under the old system, based on paper records maintained at individual police stations and gun shops, Mr. Mahoney said, "we might not be notified at all if someone was put under a restraining order."

In the case this week, Mr. Mahoney said: "We were able to go to the individual's house immediately after the restraining order was issued, which is the most dangerous time for a batterer. It's a time when the victim is probably moving out, and the risk of violence is highest."

The new Massachusetts electronic system is in addition to the federal requirement that a gun buyer undergo an instant background check. That check is completed by telephone before the gun is sold, with a clerk in the gun store calling the F.B.I. or a state police agency.

Many of the same records are searched in both checks, but the national instant background check is not as up to date as the new Massachusetts system, particularly for restraining orders, and does not require fingerprint verification.

Mr. Flynn said his office was working with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to try to consolidate the two checks in Massachusetts.

So far there has been no outcry against the new system from gun owners or the state's gun stores.

"Basically, it's all the same information we had to submit before, so this is not more intrusive," said Carl Ingrao, the owner of Four Seasons Firearms in Woburn. His business is the largest gun store in Massachusetts and was used in a pilot project testing the system beginning last June.

"I haven't had any negative comments from customers whatsoever, and I've sold over 2,000 firearms since the system went into effect," Mr. Ingrao said.

"The computer is actually quicker, more efficient and less expensive for the dealer," he said, because under the old paper system each form cost 50 cents, not including the postage for mailing a copy to the Criminal History Systems Board. Mr. Ingrao says he believes the new system will save him about $2,000 a year.

The electronic system is also faster because once a purchaser's identity is confirmed by the fingerprint scan, the computer automatically fills in the buyer's address, date of birth, height, weight and hair and eye color. That data comes from the gun license application.

"A few months ago, they had to take the system down for a day for a software upgrade, and we had to go back to filling out all the old paperwork," Mr. Ingrao said. "My clerks were saying, 'Hey, the computer is better.' "

Gun owners and the gun industry have often complained that background checks are onerous because they take too much time and prevent people from just walking in and buying a gun when they want to. Mr. Flynn said the new system was an effort to answer that criticism by speeding the process.

By law, police departments in Massachusetts have had 45 days to issue a firearms license. But with the instant check system, the police should be able to issue the license in 24 to 48 hours, Mr. Flynn said, and then a customer with a license will be able to buy a gun in a few minutes.

So far, computer terminals linked to the system have been installed in 159 of the state's 351 police departments and at the four largest gun dealers. The goal is to have them installed in all departments and gun stores by next June, Mr. Flynn said.

A customer at Four Seasons Firearms who collects handguns said he had no objection to the electronic system "because I have nothing to hide."

The customer, who declined to be identified, echoing the concerns of many gun owners about their privacy, added: "The law-abiding gun owners are always put on the defensive when some nut shoots someone. The media makes us out to be the bad guys, but we are just following the law."

[JudgemAll]

I know of a case where a woman gave her estranged husband's guns to her foreign boyfriend (ILLEGALY thus!). He was threatened by him and what not. Called ATF/DOJ, they did nothing.

Gun confiscation laws are selectively applied against the white male the gov fears and the radical leftists hate and wish to kill freely and "pogromize".

[mad_as_he$$]

Not enough tin foil!!!! Here in Nevada a woman can go to the Sheriff's office and have a TPO put in place instantly - NO judge, NO jury, NO hearing. If they respond to a domestic at an address somebody is getting hooked up and going to the crossbar hotel. You will get a hearing later but in the meantime you can't live in your own domicile. IF the judge grants a restraining order you will be marked and your guns taken along with most personal property that you did not have time to get out of the house.

Oh yea when the TPO goes into effect you generally CANNOT take your guns from the residence - only clothes, depends on the cop at the scene.It is a bad situation.

Guys I work with get stuck in it all the time. Just last week a kid got locked up overnight, missed work and the rest of his life cause he picked up some psycho b@tch at a bar , went to her house, she wigged out and threw a phone at the wall, neighbor called 911 - he claim he never touched her - I believe him. Court in 45 days and TPO in effect. He's is just lucky he was at her place.

[cc2k]

NYTexan wrote:

---

Under most circumstances a person has to to have reasonable cause for a restraining order.

---

Not exactly. In Gwinnett County Georgia, every divorce proceeding results in two restraining orders, one "protective order" for each party in the divorce. It's issued summarily to everyone who files for divorce. If you live in Gwinnett County Georgia and you get a divorce, both you and your former spouse forever lose your 2nd amendment rights.

[agitator]

A customer stupid clod of sheep dung bleeding from his rear end at Four Seasons Firearms who collects handguns said he had no objection to the electronic system "because I have nothing to hide."

[The Spirit Of Allegiance]

"the Woburn police went to the man's house and confiscated his guns, all 13 of them"


And of course the police dutifully gave possession of them to the woman being protected by nothing but a piece of legal paper, right? They didn't? Oh.

/sarcasm off

[The Spirit Of Allegiance]

"If you live in Gwinnett County Georgia and you get a divorce, both you and your former spouse forever lose your 2nd amendment rights."

And you voters are TAKING THAT from your public servants?!?

[agitator]

Article V. All power residing originally in the people, and being derived from them, the several magistrates and officers of government, vested with authority, whether legislative, executive, or judicial, are their substitutes and agents, and are at all times accountable to them.

Now the question is, if I cannot personally deny you a natural right, can I delegate authority I don't have to my "substitutes and agents" in government? The answer is NO. Does a bunch of lawyers dancing around a fire shaking chicken bones and screaming "compelling state interest" change that?  NO. Americans have forgotten the concept of principal and agent.

 

If you can't personally make a fundamental, natural right enjoyed by your next door neighbor illegal with his compliance enforced at the point of your gun (require a license., i.e., permission to do that which would otherwise be illegal), neither can your substitute & agent in government. How many other natural rights are now illegal?

[buccaneer81]

How the hell can they take someone's weapons with as little as an unproven restraining order?

Dude, it happened to me during my divorce. In Hilliard.

[Travis McGee]

"Moments after a court placed a woman's husband under a restraining order, a notice about the order popped up on a new computer terminal at the police station here. Given that information, the Woburn police went to the man's house and confiscated his guns, all 13 of them."

[longtermmemmory]

agreed, I have seen degrees petitioned on little more than spite.

I find it very disturbing that the police can now sieze personal property without a court order or compensation. In addition the owner is not even given a chance to place the property with other relatives.

[Travis McGee]

You're wrong. TRO's are now standard "boiler plate" offered by divorce lawyers to increase the leverage on husbands. Just a standard twist of the legal screws. No proof needed at all, just her word.

[Squantos]

Whats not written here is also key....had all 13 not been there he'd have been arrested......

[Lurker]

I remember that thread.

Glad to see you back old friend.

L

[Lurker]

When my ex hit me with a TRO the judge gave me 7 days to 'rid myself' of my firearms or face Federal charges.

I got them to my brothers house the next day.

Then over the next 6 days I filed an Emergency Motion to appeal the TRO and gave the judge 6 pages of documentary evidence that my wife had perjured herself and demanded that he refer the case for prosecution.

The judges response was 'no harm, no foul' and then he vacated the order.

No harm my ass. It cost me an extra grand to get the damned thing vacated.

L

[Travis McGee]

I think a lot of folks screwed by TROs would say a grand was cheap. Glad to hear it worked out for you, I wish there was "boiler plate" you could generate and post with a "how to beat a lying b!+c#'s lying TRO" guide. Sounds like you did it the best way, hard and fast.

[Travis McGee]

So even if he had already put some of his weapons "off site," they'd take him in for violating his TRO?

Does a TRO like this ever expire, say after divorce, or if the husband moves out of state?

Does a no-guns RO mean he's just plain screwed forever, RKBA-wise?

[Squantos]

IMHO and limited knowledge of each states laws I'd say in this situation ........yes on all counts. The FOIC thang that some states have adopted make you responsible for a firearm and it's security until ya get it officially removed from your FOIC (Firearms Owners ID Card). They do a random check or this TRO RO thang on ya at Oh Early Thirthy the old "it was stolen" won't fly and ya get room and board at the grey bar inn till ya fess up.....incrementalism is still upon us and it's almost time for frogs legs.

[Cogadh na Sith]

Right now I could call my lawyer and have a restraining order put on you 'because I felt threatened by your aggressive posts....'

You would lose your guns until the hearing--probably several months away. Even if the order is vacated during the hearing, what are your chances of getting your guns back?

This can happen to anyone....

[Southack]

"On Wednesday, for example, moments after a court placed a woman's husband under a restraining order, a notice about the order popped up on a new computer terminal at the police station here. Given that information, the Woburn police went to the man's house and confiscated his guns, all 13 of them."

Due process apparently doesn't exist in some blue states...

[wardaddy]

Wow. Where is the current administration on this type of destruction of the 2nd amendment? My ears are open but I'm not hearing much chatter. This is a trail that will lead to bloodshed. I'm not sure who will win....us and our kind or government forces. It will be horrible. In the beginning, it will look like a few zealots going off. Need we be reminded where all this leads.

God bless everyone.

They are listening right now to all of us here..bastards..and they can kiss my ass. I am raising my spawn to carry on the fight. And to think we waste resources and liberties over this shite while the Islamists are at our throats and our culture is eroded by la migra 24-7. We are governed by the weak...at least in Massachusetts.