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Islam in France: A Contest Between the Wind and the Sun
The Brookings Institution ^ | November 2004 | Jonathan Laurence

Posted on 12/21/2004 9:31:32 AM PST by The Loan Arranger

An employee at a municipal swimming pool in the Parisian suburb of Seine-Saint-Denis was fired in late March 2004 after the local mayor objected to the man's facial hair. "The external expression of religious beliefs cannot be tolerated where students are taking swimming courses," the mayor said. He continued with a rhetorical question that reflects contemporary concerns about Islam's place in French society: "Is proselytism a real problem in our country or not? Wasn't a law just passed that reminded us all of our duty to respect neutrality in civic life?" The city pool employee, Mourad Lamsanes, insisted he was just trying to be a good Muslim and did not intend to convert any swimmers. Shortly after introducing the bill last winter, former education minister Luc Ferry had in fact stated that perhaps "certain beards" should also be included under the law's prohibitions. They were not, ultimately, but authorities made it clear that they don't like what they see underneath certain head and face coverings: an organized movement of religious prescription and proselytism. French shorthand for Islamic extremists is "les barbus" (the bearded), a companion term to "les femmes voilées" (veiled women). Officials reason that radical Islamic movements are "testing" the Republic, and that the state should not shrink from its responsibility to preserve a religiously neutral public sphere.

(Excerpt) Read more at brookings.edu ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: euroweenies; france; headscarfban; islam; secularism; spain

1 posted on 12/21/2004 9:31:32 AM PST by The Loan Arranger
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To: The Loan Arranger

beards and scarves--the French have it all figured out.


2 posted on 12/21/2004 9:45:14 AM PST by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: ClaireSolt

civil war within 10 years...


3 posted on 12/21/2004 10:02:24 AM PST by SolutionsOnly (but some people really NEED to be offended...)
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To: SolutionsOnly

YEah, I agree...

You can't hide who you are. The Atheist have their own influence on life and other around them and those taking swimming lessons.


4 posted on 12/21/2004 10:04:22 AM PST by Idisarthur
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To: The Loan Arranger

Point of fact:

MY UNCLES REFUSE TO HELP THE FROGS AGAIN. (Both WW2 ETO vets.)

I refuse to help the Froganistanis. Let em rot.


5 posted on 12/21/2004 10:05:24 AM PST by HMFIC (US Marines, you yell, we shell.)
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To: The Loan Arranger

France s-cks.


6 posted on 12/21/2004 10:05:27 AM PST by Clemenza (Morford 2008: Not that there's anything wrong with it!)
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To: The Loan Arranger

Advice to the French: Lie back and enjoy it!


7 posted on 12/21/2004 10:06:08 AM PST by Clemenza (Morford 2008: Not that there's anything wrong with it!)
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To: The Loan Arranger

This is what a socialist nation will bring. Soon coming to America.


8 posted on 12/21/2004 10:10:04 AM PST by vpintheak (Liberal = The antithesis of Freedom and Patriotism)
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To: The Loan Arranger
The French are going to pay very dearly for their state-worshipping tendencies. The framers of the American Constitution, writing at the same time as the French Revolution, got it right with a 2-pronged first amendment: no state religion, AND protection of "free exercise" of religion. The French, over 200 years later, have still not figured out the distinction between these concepts, because they cannot imagine that there are things individuals may do that the state may not do.

Banning headscarves was incredibly stupid, but if they ban beards they will face a bloody rebellion, and they'll deserve it.

9 posted on 12/21/2004 10:13:08 AM PST by VeritatisSplendor
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To: VeritatisSplendor

"Banning headscarves was incredibly stupid, but if they ban beards they will face a bloody rebellion, and they'll deserve it."

I disagree. I see the French as taking pro-active steps to making France an undesirable place for Muslims. If they ban headscarves and beards then the devout nutbags who want to kiil infidels will not come to France. The couching of this anti-Islamic approach in liberal secularism makes this palatable to the PC Frenchies in black berets.

We should do the same in America.


10 posted on 12/21/2004 1:52:48 PM PST by PeterFinn (Liberals are a greater threat to the USA than are Islamofascists.)
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To: PeterFinn
Banning headscarves was incredibly stupid

When I first heard of the head scarf ban I thought it was stupid...here in NYC our students can wear headscarves or not...no problem...but then I read that in certain cities in France the Muslims lived in ghettos and that the young men in these ghettos were beating up any Muslim girls not wearing headscarves...in effect they were being treated like whores for daring to walk with an uncovered head...it seems that many of the more enlightened Muslims want their daughters to live in some freedom from these roving gangs...banning the headscarves has alleviated the pressure on these girls since now no one is allowed to wear them in school...they in effect gave up the freedom of religious expression for the freedom from religious oppression insofar as state property goes...

Brooklyn is such a mixed cultural bag that no one really cares...we celebrate everything...I wear a crucifix to school...we have a Christams tree in our school lobby alongside a menorrah and some Kwanza candles...no big deal.

11 posted on 12/21/2004 2:09:32 PM PST by foreshadowed at waco
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