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To: Antoninus

The Byzantine Empire was plainly the most enduring empire in history, a proud legacy. I'm not sure how you can call the Byzantine Empire the Roman Empire, however. Doesn't the name "the Roman Empire" imply that it should be in Rome? Or run by Romans?

I would more liken Byzantium to the re-establishment of the Hellenic Empire, which is an Empire much more proud even than Rome.

Language:
Rome: Latin
Hellenic: Greek
Byzantium: Greek

Seat:
Rome: Italy
Hellenic: Greece
Byzantium: Greece

Territory:
Rome: Mediterranean
Hellenic: Eastern Mediterranean, Middle East
Byzantium: Eastern Mediterranean, Middle East


39 posted on 12/20/2004 10:34:45 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

Keep in mind the Byzantine Greeks called themselves Romaioi (Romans) until the very bitter end..


43 posted on 12/20/2004 10:44:49 PM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: dangus
What, if anything, is a Byzantine?
47 posted on 12/20/2004 10:49:38 PM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: dangus; Antoninus
The Byzantine Empire was plainly the most enduring empire in history, a proud legacy. I'm not sure how you can call the Byzantine Empire the Roman Empire, however. Doesn't the name "the Roman Empire" imply that it should be in Rome? Or run by Romans?

The thing is that the Byzantines called themselves Romaoi -- Romans, they considered themselves Romans who retained the light of civiisation (and they were mostly correct!). If you were to transport yourself back to 1300 AD, the Byzantine Emperor would insist that he ruled the Eastern Half of the Roman Empire.
55 posted on 12/20/2004 11:03:58 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: dangus
I would more liken Byzantium to the re-establishment of the Hellenic Empire, which is an Empire much more proud even than Rome.

No way -- there was barely a gasp of the "Hellenic" Empire under Alexander and it quickly split up -- Egypt went back to it's Pharoahs, though now they were ethnic Hellenes, but they worshipped the same old gods and followed the old ways, Syria had Seleucus (or was it antiochus?) and there was an Empire in Greece proper and in Persia -- they were not one entity (unlike the Mongol Empire, which after Genghis, for 50 years was ONE empire with FOUR ulus'). Even the places where the Macedonians conquered retained their far more ancient civilisations with a veneer of hellenic thought -- Persia for example, or Egypt.
58 posted on 12/20/2004 11:07:02 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: dangus
The Byzantine Empire was plainly the most enduring empire in history, a proud legacy. I'm not sure how you can call the Byzantine Empire the Roman Empire, however. Doesn't the name "the Roman Empire" imply that it should be in Rome? Or run by Romans?

Well, for one thing, they called themselves "The Romans" long after Rome was stripped from their empire for good--which didn't actually happen until the late 6th century. And they still laid claim to Rome even after it was impossible for them to retake the city militarily. They never thought of themselves as "Byzantines"--a modern term used to describe the Eastern Roman Empire.

Secondly, when Constantine built Byzantium into a world-class city, he did so by importing actual Romans into the city, including many senators and members of the nobility. Constantinople was called New Rome and it was rumored that Constantine even broght the Palladium (an ancient wooden statue of Athena that was originally at Troy) from Rome to Byzantium to mark the city as the successor to Rome.

Third, the offical language of the military and the law in Constantinople was Latin for a long time after the fall of the west.

I would more liken Byzantium to the re-establishment of the Hellenic Empire, which is an Empire much more proud even than Rome.

You can do that, but not many Byzantinists would agree with you. Here's a more accurate chart for you:

Language:
Rome: Latin
Hellenic: Greek
Byzantium: Greek & Latin

Seat:
Rome: Italy
Hellenic: Greece
Byzantium: Thrace

Territory:
Rome: Mediterranean rim, Western Europe
Hellenic: Eastern Mediterranean, Middle East
Byzantium: Asia Minor, Balkans, Sicily

Religion:
Rome: Paganism, Christianity
Hellenic: Paganism
Byzantium: Christianity

Military:
Rome: Infantry legions transitioning to heavy cavalry Hellenic: Infantry phalanxes
Byantium: heavy cavalry

Byzantium ended up being, in my view, the Greeks wishing to hold onto and revive the glory that was the ancient Roman Empire. They took what they thought was best about Roman civilization and welded onto the Hellenic, creating a unique society that ended up being a victim of its own success in the end.
82 posted on 12/21/2004 10:46:23 AM PST by Antoninus (A blessed birthday of Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, to you!)
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