Are We Going The Way of Rome? - (Caution! - this is a "no spin zone!")

MACKINAC.ORG ^ | SEPTEMBER 1, 1002 | LAWRENCE W. REED

[dangus]

Call it a flash in the pan if you want, but it established Greek as the lingua franca of the Eastern Meditteranean, and Greek civilization as dominant. One could call the Romans just the rulers over a Greek Empire in a lot of ways.

As for Romanoi, "Roman" had come to mean "of the civilized world."

[Antoninus]

The Byzantine Empire was plainly the most enduring empire in history, a proud legacy. I'm not sure how you can call the Byzantine Empire the Roman Empire, however. Doesn't the name "the Roman Empire" imply that it should be in Rome? Or run by Romans?

Well, for one thing, they called themselves "The Romans" long after Rome was stripped from their empire for good--which didn't actually happen until the late 6th century. And they still laid claim to Rome even after it was impossible for them to retake the city militarily. They never thought of themselves as "Byzantines"--a modern term used to describe the Eastern Roman Empire.

Secondly, when Constantine built Byzantium into a world-class city, he did so by importing actual Romans into the city, including many senators and members of the nobility. Constantinople was called New Rome and it was rumored that Constantine even broght the Palladium (an ancient wooden statue of Athena that was originally at Troy) from Rome to Byzantium to mark the city as the successor to Rome.

Third, the offical language of the military and the law in Constantinople was Latin for a long time after the fall of the west.

I would more liken Byzantium to the re-establishment of the Hellenic Empire, which is an Empire much more proud even than Rome.

You can do that, but not many Byzantinists would agree with you. Here's a more accurate chart for you:

Language:
Rome: Latin
Hellenic: Greek
Byzantium: Greek & Latin

Seat:
Rome: Italy
Hellenic: Greece
Byzantium: Thrace

Territory:
Rome: Mediterranean rim, Western Europe
Hellenic: Eastern Mediterranean, Middle East
Byzantium: Asia Minor, Balkans, Sicily

Religion:
Rome: Paganism, Christianity
Hellenic: Paganism
Byzantium: Christianity

Military:
Rome: Infantry legions transitioning to heavy cavalry Hellenic: Infantry phalanxes
Byantium: heavy cavalry

Byzantium ended up being, in my view, the Greeks wishing to hold onto and revive the glory that was the ancient Roman Empire. They took what they thought was best about Roman civilization and welded onto the Hellenic, creating a unique society that ended up being a victim of its own success in the end.

[Antoninus]

Call it a flash in the pan if you want, but it established Greek as the lingua franca of the Eastern Meditteranean, and Greek civilization as dominant. One could call the Romans just the rulers over a Greek Empire in a lot of ways.

I would agree with part of what you say, but to call the Romans "just" rulers over a Greek Empire is not accurate. The Romans managed to do something that no other civilization had been able to do: Consolidate practically all of the known world under one rule for a very long time. They did this with unsurpassed might in war and mildness in peace. They planted colonies all throughout the Greek east, adding a distinctly Roman flavor to the Hellenic territories (arenas, roads, arches, domes, military culture, etc.)

Culturally, the Greeks and Romans became practically the same people as they existed within the Empire for hundreds of years together. So really, what we're talking about by the time of Constantine was an amalgam civilization that was neither purely Roman or purely Hellenic as the terms had been known before 31 BC.

[SeaWolf]

I know what you mean, I get one too many single malts under my belt I get the urge ti invade France and paint the Eiffel Tower green!

[Nick Danger]

paint the Eiffel Tower green!

We should hurry, before the Moslems blow it up.

[SunkenCiv]

Ancient Topic!

Just adding to the GGG catalog, not pinging.