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To: ScuzzyTerminator
there is no agreement

How many times have you had to click the "I agree with the terms" button; otherwise, installation ceases. Agree and install continues; disagree (thus decline) and installation ceases. Then try returning the package to the store. That was the intent of the lawsuit in the article.

Does all software follow that method? No, but most of the major and many of the minor do. Those companies that are most knowledgeable with EULAs and copyrights do.

The point is, there is a difference between violating a copyright and violating a license agreement

That is why MY comments were regarding software licensing and not book/CD copyright (Unlike buying a book or a CD ). I am very familiar with copyrights. I have been directly involved in copyrighting both text materials (books/manuals) and software program code. EULAs are simply statements of terms of agreement (thus, creating a contract) between two parties: the software creator and the user.

By mixing copyright and EULA in your response, you are muddling the issue. The problem/concern was with EULA and its validity. It has nothing to do with copyright. Copyright on software pertains to protecting the code. It has nothing to do with software use. EULA is the usage agreement. That usage agreement typically says you can use the software but the company still owns all rights to it.

The point of the lawsuit was that the EULA terms were not external. One had to start the install to see the EULA terms. If one disagreed and ceased installation, one should have been able to return the package to point of purchase. In this case (and for most stores/chains who had a similar policy), you open the package, you cannot return it for a refund. This lawsuit makes the point of purchase responsible for making available a copy of EULA at pre-purchase time.

Years ago, many stores had a 'you break it, you bought it' policy. Someone took that to court. The stores lost (IIRC). You only see such signs in small mom-pop type stores any more, because the policy is not enforceable.
12 posted on 12/21/2004 6:19:50 AM PST by TomGuy (America: Best friend or worst enemy. Choose wisely.)
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To: TomGuy
EULAs are simply statements of terms of agreement (thus, creating a contract) between two parties: the software creator and the user.

Statements of terms of agreement are not valid unless the purchaser enters into the agreement. When you buy a copy, you do not need permission to use it. If the copyright holder, after purchase, offers you an EULA contract to use it, you have every right to decline and continue using it. The copyright holder has no legal power to revoke your right to use after purchase by saying "if you click this you agree."  You have every right to disagree and click anyway. Its you copy, you own it and you can do whatever you want with it, subject to copyright law.

The situation is totaly different when the EULA contract is offered before purchase. You can not legaly obtain the copy without permission and the EULA contract is what is require to get permission.

By mixing copyright and EULA in your response, you are muddling the issue.

Not muddling. The point is that it is copyright law that is in effect untill the purchaser enters into the EULA contract and copyright law remains in effect if the purchaser declines the EULA contract. If you decline the EULA contract you may do whatever copyright law allows you to do with a purchased copy, that is, you may use it.
17 posted on 12/21/2004 11:53:03 PM PST by ScuzzyTerminator
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