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Saint-making Pope is ready to ditch the miracle clause
London Times ^ | 12/20/04 | Richard Owen

Posted on 12/20/2004 5:45:44 PM PST by wagglebee

CANDIDATES for sainthood will be exonerated from the requirement to have performed a miracle under guidelines being considered by the Pope.

Already under fire from some Roman Catholics for running a “saint factory”, the Pope is preparing to overturn a centuries-old rule that candidates for canonisation must have performed “medically inexplicable” posthumous miracles.

The Pope, 84, has created 482 saints in his 26 years as pontiff — more than all his predecessors put together — and has beatified 1,337 people. He believes that “latter-day saints” offer a much-needed example at a time when Christianity is under threat from secularism and rival religions.

Abolishing the need for miracles would speed up the canonisation of some of the Pope’s favourite candidates, including Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who was beatified last year. It could also revive plans to beatify Robert Schuman, the French-born founder of the EU, shelved earlier this year because of lack of evidence that anyone had been cured after praying to him.

The Pope last streamlined the beatification and canonisation process in 1983, when he decreed that martyrs — those killed for their faith — could be beatified without the need for a certifiable miracle.

Yesterday Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Archbishop of Genoa, disclosed that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Pope’s ideologial “enforcer” for two decades, had presented a formula for the abolition of the “the miracle clause” to the Pope. Cardinal Bertone said that there was a growing feeling in the Vatican that the need for miracles for both beatification and canonisation was “anachronistic”.

At present, candidates for beatification, which confers the title “Blessed” and is the penultimate step before sainthood, must be shown to have performed at least one miracle after death by curing the terminally ill in response to prayers of intercession. For sainthood, evidence of at least two miracles is required. Claims of miraculous cures are examined by a panel of five medical experts at the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, a Vatican body.

The panel, drawn from a pool of a hundred doctors and specialists, must conclude that the cure was “sudden, complete and permanent” and had no scientific explanation. Cardinal Bertone said what mattered was not whether saints had performed miracles but whether they had displayed “heroic virtues” and led an exemplary Christian life.

Il Secolo XIX, the Genoa newspaper, said the proposed “revolution in saintmaking” would upset traditionalists who regarded miracles as “one of the cornerstones of the Catholic faith”.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: allabitnutty; canfitonheadofapin; canonization; catholicism; howmanyangels; icvirgininmyoatmeal; johnpaulii; miracleofindulgences; miracleonice; miracles; sainthood; vatican
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To: wagglebee
I don't like this idea, primarily because it will be seen in the secular world as a caving in to what secularists regard as a fact, that miracles associated with saints no longer occur, if they ever did. IOW, this will have the opposite effect of what the pope intends.
101 posted on 12/21/2004 4:48:47 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: sevry
All of these, when the church is free of his sort, and set itself right, by God, will have to be scrapped and individually reconsidered. Just think of every 'Saint' or blessed under JP II as essentially 'probationary', and temporary.

The Church's (pope's) determination of sainthood is an exercise of Its infallible teaching authority.

102 posted on 12/21/2004 4:50:41 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: gbcdoj

But novelties are not magisterial teachings. The Pope is not acting as a magisterial teacher when he proposes what is novel. Only when his teachings adhere to the consistent teaching of the Church can his doctrines be said to be binding. It doesn't matter how many pontifical institutes declare, for instance, that Jews need not be converted to Christ, this is not binding in any way, shape or form.

What it is, though, is destructive of the true doctrine--which is deliberately ignored and subverted and allowed to be forgotten. So it goes with most Church doctrines of the past which now languish in neglect. There is no need therefore for any direct assault on doctrinal truths either. It is enough to just suppress and subvert dogmatic truths and to create an environment for the breakdown of the Catholic faith itself.


103 posted on 12/21/2004 4:52:26 AM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Malcolm
If you've accepted Jesus Christ as savior, you are a saint. This is not the purview of anyone on this earth, least of all the Church of the Inquisition and the Crusades. The Catholic Church is in error up to the rafters, (celibate priests, penance vs repentance, etc.), but this issue burns me up most of all.

Believe it or not, Catholics have heard these objections before, and they've all been answered.

If you want to change the hearts of Catholics, you will have to inform yourself regarding these issues.

Some resources:

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Summa Theologica
Church Fathers
Catholic Encyclopedia
Catholic Answers
Scripture Catholic
Biblical Evidence for Catholicism

104 posted on 12/21/2004 5:00:58 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: oldbrowser
How about saint Christopher? didn't they just recently say that he never really existed?

Saints were originally determined by popular acclamation. Since their existence is known only through oral tradition, no one can know for sure what aspects of their stories are true and which are legendary. Additionally, there are too many saints to give each of them a day, so St. Christopher got bumped for another saint.


105 posted on 12/21/2004 5:05:58 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Land of the Irish

Great cartoon, LOTI! Being a new convert, I'm troubled by this seeming lowering of the bar and taking out the miracles prerequisite. My understanding from most of what I read during the years leading up to my crossing of the Tiber was that the Church had very specific criteria for canonizing and usually went through a long and careful process before formally declaring someong a saint.

Yes, all of us are saints in Christ. Those that receive a formal title (St. Paul, St. Thomas Aquinas, etc.) received it because of extraordinary reasons, usually long after their lifetimes.

But then again, I'm just a "dumb" convert (tongue in cheek).


106 posted on 12/21/2004 5:07:29 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (tired of shucking and jiving)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
One thing is for certain. The Holy Spirit is no longer safeguarding the hierarchy from error.

Where does this certainty derive from, the Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth," or your infallible judgement?

107 posted on 12/21/2004 5:11:37 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: gbcdoj

Good posts. Repetition is important to learning.


108 posted on 12/21/2004 5:13:03 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Pyro7480

I'd always thought that being formally canonized as a saint (the formal title as opposed to the general position that all Christians are saints) was a long and very careful process that was done in stages. This was done to ensure that the formal title of Saint was given to those that merited it, such as those who did work miracles through the Holy Spirit, made extraordinary contributions to the Church, etc. At least that was what I read over the six years that lead to my crossing of the Tiber. I guess I'll be reamed for being a traditionalist on this issue, but I do not think this lowering of the bar, so to speak, should even be considered, much less implemented.

The formal title of Saint is meant for those who are extraordinary examples of holiness, faith, hope, charity, wisdom, and perseverence; people we were to look at for role models in living the Christian life and to help us in our walk. There are saints form all walks of life and all sotrs of personalities, so each of us could find people who have gone before us to relate to.

At least, that was my understanding from what I read during my six years of moving closer to the Catholic Church. But then again, I'm just one of those "dumb" converts, what the heck do I know (tongue in cheek).


109 posted on 12/21/2004 5:19:13 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (tired of shucking and jiving)
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To: gbcdoj

One of the modernist tricks, after all, is to cite preconciliar sources to urge conformity to postconciliar doctrines that would have sent those sources climbing up a wall. Modernists in particular like to cite Pius X or Pius XII--in support of novelties that would have horrified them.

At the same time the very people who do this, trash Trent and the Syllabus of Errors and whatever else preconciliar popes supported. It only works one way, apparently. The New Religion feels no compulsion to honor the past in any way--except when necessary to bring ordinary Catholics into strict obedience with its own false agenda.


110 posted on 12/21/2004 5:19:43 AM PST by ultima ratio
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To: sevry
Cardinal Bertone said what mattered was not whether saints had performed miracles but whether they had displayed “heroic virtues” and led an exemplary Christian life.

If this is true now why was it not true before now.

What has changed?

Confusing and rather laughable.

What's next?

Flame away!

111 posted on 12/21/2004 5:32:31 AM PST by VOYAGER
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To: pascendi

And a merry Christmas to you too!


112 posted on 12/21/2004 5:39:28 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: VOYAGER

In fact, this is probably a typical Vatican trial balloon. When it finds the reaction is too strongly against, Rome will pull back its horns and wait for a more opportune moment. But the report is still interesting as a guage of Vatican thinking.


113 posted on 12/21/2004 5:47:16 AM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Never mind Mahony or Kasper. They may very well be heretics. Many bishops have been heretics; they frequently are the people who come up with heresy. And if they don't come up with it, they're big promoters. Arianism, anyone?

As for the Magisterium declaring that Jews no longer need to convert to be saved, the Magisterium has done no such thing. If you want to hear the current instructions on the topic, Jean-Marie Cardinal Lustiger is an expert.

As for Holy Father kissing the Koran...
He is very very eager to be ecumenical. So much so, that he often forgets his own children. It is the same thing with Assisi. It was no doubt very impressive for Non-Catholics, and non-Christians, etc. But Holy Father did not think about the damage it would do to the simple faith of so many Catholics who can't stomach the parsing of "praying together" into "being to together to pray".

It is the same thing with this Saint business. I have my doubts about the report, because at any one time there are so many things being 'considered' by the Pope. Nevertheless, it is a terribly bad idea to cheapen canonization by stripping the process of the supernatural.

This is just like the alter girls decision, and Communion in the hand, etc. Bad management. But poor management is hardly an excuse for sedevacantism.
114 posted on 12/21/2004 5:57:53 AM PST by Lilllabettt
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To: Aquinasfan

Why not just read the Bible? God will change the hearts of Catholics or any other denominational worshiper, (by that I mean those who worship their denomination).


115 posted on 12/21/2004 6:05:50 AM PST by normy (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.)
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To: wagglebee
The Pope, 84, has created 482 saints in his 26 years as pontiff — more than all his predecessors put together — and has beatified 1,337 people. He believes that “latter-day saints” offer a much-needed example at a time when Christianity is under threat from secularism and rival religions.

Cranking out saints to strengthen the religion is like cranking out greenbacks to strengthen the economy.

116 posted on 12/21/2004 6:14:16 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: milltech; wagglebee

Pope Piux XII also proclaimed an infallible dogma - the Assumption of Mary.


117 posted on 12/21/2004 6:23:38 AM PST by ELS
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To: wagglebee
At present, candidates for beatification, which confers the title “Blessed” and is the penultimate step before sainthood, must be shown to have performed at least one miracle after death by curing the terminally ill in response to prayers of intercession.

I thought that the miracles could be any kind of miracle -- it's just that medical miracles have always been the easiest to prove.

118 posted on 12/21/2004 6:26:31 AM PST by BlessedBeGod (George W. Bush -- The Terror of the Terrorists)
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To: steve-b

I do not take this saint hood stuff seriously at all, but obviously Catholics do. This recent move reminds me of how far knighthood has fallen. Are we going to see Saint Elton John next? Saint "Rebel Billionaire" ?


119 posted on 12/21/2004 6:27:55 AM PST by normy (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.)
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To: wagglebee

When a saint is declared by the Pope, it's considered to be infallible because it's actually the Holy Spirit who decides who's to become a saint and who isn't. If the Holy Spirit decides someone up for sainthood shouldn't get it (for whatever God's reason is -- not necessarily because they're not in Heaven), the process will be stopped somwhere along the line. That's how people end up with the titles of Servant of God, Venerable, and Blessed and never advance to Saint. The Holy Spirit stops it.


120 posted on 12/21/2004 6:32:23 AM PST by BlessedBeGod (George W. Bush -- The Terror of the Terrorists)
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