GIRL WRESTLER: Should girls and boys should be able to wrestle on the same mat?

Independent Lens / PBS ^ | 12/17/2004 | Diane Zander

[quietolong]

Girl Wrestler

Texas teenager Tara Neal insists that girls and boys should be able to wrestle on the same mat.

Filmmaker Diane Zander follows Neal through the last year in which state guidelines allow her to wrestle boys.

It's a year filled with family conflict, pressure to cut weight and fierce policy debates over Title IX, which grants women's athletics proportionality in public schools

Link to show

[MikefromOhio]

its an offshoot that is semi-related, but also two subjects with completely different circumstances and outcomes....

women in combat for me is a no. It has been documented why, but for the most part, they cannot handle the physical strain. MEN sometimes can't handle the physical strain from time to time, which is why the spec ops guys are the elite and our Infantry is right behind. YOU must be able to march with sometimes as much as 2/3rds your body weight in extreme cases. Half of your body weight is too much for a long journey, but if you have to carry a radio along with other things you will achieve that instantly. A woman's bone structure is such that there will be great strain on her knees and hips, not to mention back issues and ankle issues.

Women on the mat is a bit different. It isnt life or death. It is a competition. I have seen girls more than hold their own up to the 119 lb class. After that, the guys get too big and are too strong.

[goldstategop]

Hey - Sarah Michelle Gellar, who has a martial arts black belt showed even girls can take on big guys. If you've seen her on Buffy you know what I mean.

[MikefromOhio]

From experience, it isnt that bad. Just look at what I posted further up.

The coaches can hold great sway on this issue. Girls can hold their own in the lower classes at well. You would be surprised :)

and no it isnt at all sexual. Wrestlers have respect (they are supposed too at any rate) for each other...

[The Spirit Of Allegiance]

I wrestled in high school but would NOT have wanted to wrestle a girl. If you've ever wrestled, you know your hands have to go wherever you can get a grip. If that's through the crotch and under the thigh or back, to help you get a cradle to pin your opponent, that's what you have to do--and your opponent is squirming, "bridging" (raising their shoulder blades above the mat by using their neck muscles) -- all this is normal and fine in the heat of the moment and is not sexual in same-sex matches. You put coed opponents in there, and you throw a HUGE new set of dynamics in there. Real wrestling is rough and hands are everywhere. Girls shouldn't be in the ring with boys. We had "Wrestlerettes" who cheered us. Sexist? No. Gender-appropriate. I didn't go out for Powderpuff Football, either, honey.

[Cronos]

THis is a big deal -- I couldnt' hit a woman, my mind would stop my fist. School kids with the same mindset will keep losing to the girl

[BOOTSTICK]

Your joking?, right? martial arts? whats that?, oh I know now. Martial arts is some clown who states that women taking his classes and giving him $$ can actually be safe on the streets with this knowledge. Reality is martial arts will only give the female a false sense of security, a 105 lb female will be no match for a 250 lb assailant. If women really want to be safe on the street better a trip to the local gun shop then to a martial arts course...well unless she is just looking for some exercise.

[MikefromOhio]

the kids need to learn to get the job done.

You arent hitting each other. At worst you will be on top of her, but it isnt in a sexual way. If you dont want to do it, forfeit. But for your teammates you go out there and do your level best to win that match and the points for your team.

[goldstategop]

Too much testosterone pride involved for a teenage guy to be whipped by a girl. Who says life is fair? ;-)

[goldstategop]

It won't stop a guy with a gun but the point of martial arts is to allow one to get away from danger and live another day by immobilizing your opponent. In real life, its not going to get any one dusted like in Buffy but its going to make opponents know you can defend yourself. Knowing how to do it effectively in the long run makes for a safer society.

[BOOTSTICK]

I don't get it, when I was in high school I did some wrestling, but there were not enough opponents big enough to be competitive { I weighed 310 lbs} so I played football. If I had to wrestle a girl I would do my up most to end her career on the mat, and I would do my up most to make her feel like she was in a cheap porno flick. I'm tired of the feminist double standard, it reminds me of the time when I was watching ABC's Wide world Of Sports, they had an exhibition of how females can protect themselves via the martial arts. This wise ass chick decides to go full bore and tries to K.O. the then retired, former Karate World champion, so she being a 110 lb woman kicks the X-champ upside the head, not only did the X-champ not go down, but he became a tad upset, since this was to be a "no contact" exhibition. The X-champ decided to kick this woman upside her head sending her through the ropes and onto the floor unconscious, however when she came to he did apologize and gave her a kiss on the cheek. The lesson here is....girls stick to the field hockey and softball, and leave the real sports to the men.

[HitmanLV]

Is this the message we want to teach boys? It’s OK to throw girls around?

The boy should wrestle to win - beating down a girl is better than being beaten down by a girl, if you ask me. If she wants to compete, he should give her everything he has and not worry about where to grab her, etc. Just beat her (if he can).

And may the best athlete win, in any case! :-)

[Mr Rogers]

In organized sports like wrestling, a woman will be at a disadvantage because she will have a slightly higher percentage of body fat, which means she will have slightly less muscle. However, particularly in the lower weight classes, this disadvantage can be overcome with skill and fighting spirit.

I'm 46 and weigh 160 lbs. I work a 50-60 hour week, mostly sedentary. I run & lift weights, but am in no way a serious athlete. If I had to go in the ring with one of our women's judo olympic competitors, she could play with me as long as she felt like & finish me off at will - I wouldn't stand a chance.

That doesn't mean martial arts are an end all for women - after all, few women are serious athletes either. Fortunately, neither is the average thug. And the average thug isn't looking for someone he can beat after a 15 minute brawl. A woman who knows how to throw a real punch, or one who knows how to escape from a headlock/twisted arm, has a much better chance of escaping than someone who knows nothing. Unfortunately, most MAs are taught in McDojos where the woman is taught she is invincible - a real bad idea since size counts. There is a reason why there are weight classes in judo, boxing, etc.

As for wrestling, I'm on the side of "Let 'em try". Most will not be able to compete. Those that can are welcome to. Nor would I look down on a 130 lb boy who lost to a 130 lb girl - she may be only a few pounds lighter in muscle mass, and know more technique.

Women in combat - I'm opposed. The number of women who can pull their own weight isn't high enough to justify the effort, and there are too many sexual problems brought with them.

[MikefromOhio]

If I had to wrestle a girl I would do my up most to end her career on the mat, and I would do my up most to make her feel like she was in a cheap porno flick.

-------

The lesson here is....girls stick to the field hockey and softball, and leave the real sports to the men.

---

You are serious arent you? You know that if you have an intent to injure you lose the match immediately and then you get to be the butt of jokes that you couldnt beat the girl, you tried to injure her, not a situation I would like to be in.

I beat a couple of heavyweights that were pushing that 275 lb mark, both of whom happened to be making fun of the girl on our team, saying garbage like you just said. I was 205 lbs at the time and pinned both of them. It isnt the size or the sex of the dog in the fight, but the fight in that dog....

[BOOTSTICK]

I got news for you, I don't care if some 110 woman has a dozen black belts hanging around her waist, this martial arts stuff is 100% pure garbage. In real life { not the baloney some martial arts instructor hands you} when a 110 lb woman is punched in the face by a 250 lb man she is going down, and not likely to get up. The martial arts industry is in the business to take $$ from the naive, it's as phony as some clown breaking a stack of concrete slabs with his hand {requires no special skill, just a basic understanding of physics}. I remember the day I was over my brothers house and some martial arts instructor was there and how he was bragging he could disarm someone from 10 feet away, well I bet him that I could borrow my neighbors paint ball gun, and if he could disarm me before I shot him, I would pay him $1000, and if he couldn't he would pay me $1000 , needless to say he declined the opportunity.

[Mr Rogers]

You set up two straw men.

1 - No one on this thread has said a 110 pound woman has a decent chance against a 250 lb man. That is why there are weight classes. However, my 120 pound daughter did once put her 135 lb date face first on the floor of the mall after he decided to play with her tits (ended the date, BTW). And my wife has bloodied the nose of an instructor (academic) who asked her for sex (she didn't tell me about it until several years later).

2 - there are martial arts studios (majority, IMHO) where they take your money & teach nothing of value. That doesn't mean that punches, throws and locks do not exist, or cannot be taught.

[BOOTSTICK]

I would do my up most to humiliate her as best I could, since she has no business on the mat, unless she is doing a tumbling floor exercise. And it is quite easy to rub someones face into the mat , as well as other techniques that can be quite painful yet are 100% legal. Better to abuse some female on the mat, then to lose to her and become a "nancyboy".I guess you would support men/women boxing too since they are also set by weight classifications?

[MikefromOhio]

I guess you would support men/women boxing too since they are also set by weight classifications?

---

They allow mixed boxing? I had no idea....so no I dont. That involved hitting.

In wrestling, there is skill involved.

[Cronos]

At worst you will be on top of her, but it isnt in a sexual way.

True enough -- but I'm just saying I couldn't do it, there'd be a mental block saying "you can't do this to a girl".

[Cronos]

310 lbs?????? bluidy heel, ye're a big lad, ain't you? I'm about 200 lbs myself and 6'1", but 310 lbs, sheesh, slamming into you would be like hitting a brick wall!!

[MikefromOhio]

yeah....

that is when, as a coach, I tell you to forget the sex and wrestle the opponent for your team mates.....

It happens man...