Posted on 12/18/2004 11:51:36 PM PST by reaganaut
In early 2004, a few visionary people in a small Underground Church in Mexico City began to plan a huge Christian music event called "The Revolution Metal Festival."
Their vision was that this event would provide a powerful platform for a number of well established Christian artists to perform, to proclaim The Gospel of Jesus Christ and ultimately, to minister to thousands of people in Mexico City. These visionary people soon found themselves in the unfamiliar position of concert promoters. To solidify and confirm the event, the promoters soon issued generous invitations to U.S. bands Stryper and Saviour Machine, Narnia from Sweden and Mortification from Australia.
By the Spring of 2004, all four bands had agreed to terms and conditions with the promoters and preparation for the festival was now underway. In the initial terms, Stryper asked for 35,000 US$ as their fee for the concert....although the Mexican promoters knew this was a tremendous amount of money to raise, they agreed.
By the Summer of 2004, all plans for the festival were well underway and the venue was now booked. Stryper then informed the promoter that they would not be able to perform in Mexico City after all. The promoters then contacted Stryper Management and Michael Sweet personally, several times in an attempt to keep the festival alive. After a number of phone calls, Michael Sweet promised to pray about the situation over the upcoming weekend and to speak to his pastor. The promoters were asked to call him the following Monday. They did call on Monday but did not reach Michael Sweet by telephone. On Thursday of that week, Stryper management finally called the promoters and confirmed that Stryper WOULD come to play the show...on one condition: The promoters would now have to pay Stryper a total of 100,000 US$!
With preparations SO far underway, the venue booked and contracts with Saviour Machine, Narnia and Mortification already signed, these kind yet, inexperienced promoters agreed to Stryper's incomprehensible demands. A contract with Stryper was signed in August and preparation for the first Revolution Metal Fest continued.
Less than 48 hours before the concert on November 20th, Stryper´s management telephoned the promoters to inform them that Stryper was now canceling the show! Management's justification was: the promoters had not fulfilled 100% of the contract!
Despite Stryper's management delivering copies of all passports 3 weeks later than requested, all visas for the band/crew were prepared and provided in sufficient time for their flights to Mexico City. Stryper's management claimed that visas were provided 2 1/2 hours later than agreed upon and considered this delay a breech of contract!
At the time of Stryper's cancellation, they had been paid 56,500 US$ in advance. Management informed the promoters that Stryper would retain the ENTIRE amount!
We who have provided you with the information above, do STRONGLY believe that the actions of Stryper and it's management in this matter are immoral and grossly unjust!
We'd like to ask YOU (the reader) a few simple questions:
1.) Is it fair to ask South American promoters for 100,000 US$ as a concert fee? To demand this absurd amount of money from Mexican people who's economic situation is nowhere near ours here in The United States or Western Europe?
2.) Can someone, morally and ethically, justify the fact that Stryper is not willing to pay back EVERY dollar or at least a huge portion of the advance money back?
3.) Can Stryper's/Management's behavior in ANY WAY, be justified Biblically?
4.) Can YOU do something to help RIGHT this intolerable WRONG?
Also on this site are letters about the concert in general. Other bands listed had several problems but worked through them with the promoters.
One of the guys behind this site is the musician Steve Rowe who is a dedicated Christian and good guy. I'm on his side on this, partly because I find several things wrong with Stryper's statement. If they really believe they are in a ministry, they should have talked to their accountants and done the concert as a write off.
I know that there is a business aspect to this, but Stryper should have handled this better and their "fee" is outrageous considering their lack of popularity here in the states. I can't imagine them getting a $100,000.00 dollar fee here in the states.
Hello everyone,
I wanted to take a moment to share a few things with you.
So many things have been said from many people regarding the cancelation of the Mexico City show.
A very disturbing part to this story is the fact that some people choose (Steve Rowe for example) to question and judge our motives yet at the same time do so without knowing all the facts.
Here are some facts that many of you may not know:
1 - Stryper did originally cancel with the promoter before any money was paid out to the band - months before the show!
2 - The promoters started calling the band members asking Stryper to re-consider. We directed them to management.
3 - It was not a good time for the band to perform (management explains this in the statement they released) therefore it would be MUCH more expensive for the band to come to Mexico.
4 - We had to pay for flights to Boston, hotels, per diem, rental cars, float for other expenses (strings, batteries, drum heads, tape, tools, cables, parts, fuel), as well as being obligated to pay management (who had an office full of people working on this show for over 6 months) and we were obligated to pay the band and crew. Our time was taken from our other jobs, and other shows that were "on the table" were cancelled to do the Mexico City show. It was VERY costly to us and those costs and expenses had to be paid. Also, time after time contracts are breached. If the promoter breaches, the Agency, Management, and band legally have the right to keep the deposit that was paid by the promoter. If the band breaches the agreement, they are required to send the money back. This was part of the agreement and it was made very clear to the promoter within the agreement that was signed.
5 - The work visas were not in place and this is what led to the final decision to not go the Mexico. It's been said that this was the fault of management - not true! It’s been said that the work visas were in place - not true! Management did all that they could do to resolve the work visa issue. My question is - if it was the fault of our management then why didn't any of the other bands have work visas? If you read all the statements from all those involved you will find that no one had work visas. Why? The promoter did not provide them. We have, on many occasions, been detained by customs due to improper paper work or not having work visas. We have had to pay obscene amounts of money to customs in order to get in to a particular country to perform. Also, to bring our equipment in to the country. Again, there are times when you have to use wisdom and you can’t blindly say “just trust in The Lord”. God calls us to be smarter than that.
We have learned the hard way and we don’t make those same mistakes anymore.
6 - Once management knew that this show was just too much for the promoter to handle, they pleaded with the promoter to re-schedule and set another date - the promoter did not take the advice and decided to move forward with the date. It’s been said that they could not change the date? Any show date can be changed that far in advance. It’s been done many, many times before in the industry and will be done many, many times again in the industry. It happens all the time.
All the promoter had to do was tell management that the work visas were a problem or the finances were a problem or the arrangements were a problem - he did not. He continued to to tell our management that everything was fine and in place - it was not.
Now, all the facts aside, we are a band and a ministry that cares for people and we are 100% serious about our faith, our message and the gifts and the calling that God has given to us. We will do all that we can to help the promoters and the people in Mexico.
Regardless of what Steve Rowe, Narnia, Saviour Machine and or the people that represent them say, we love the Lord with all of our hearts, minds and souls and only He knows our hearts and motives. We also rely upon Him for guidance and wisdom. We are a ministry but this is also our job, our livelihood. It seems impossible for Steve Rowe, Narnia, Saviour Machine, Mortification and those who believe their false views, to comprehend this fact. Do I have the right to protest other Christian bands for what they ask as a guarantee for performing a show? Of course not! It’s none of my business. There are Christian bands and Christian artists that I know personally that get paid $150,000, $200,000, $250,000 per show and sometimes even more. Is it my business - absolutely not! This is a job as well as a ministry for Stryper. We have to be concerned with the business side of things as well as the spiritual side. It may not be this way for the other bands involved but it is for us. Once again, this is our livelihood as it is our Ministry. If we heard that Mortification received money to do a show and pulled out due to breach of contract on the promoters side would we question why? Of course not! Would we force ourselves into their business and judge them? Of course not! Nor would be say anything about what they are asking to perform. It’s not our business.We have not personally spoken to any of you who choose to judge and attack our Ministry without knowing all the facts and without hearing both sides, but one can only hope that as you sit there reading these words that you will feel convicted for the the contradictions in your faith, and that someday you'll find peace.
STRYPER
Not going to wade through this controversy, but I must say that I find it hard to believe that Mexico City, site of the Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe, Patron of the Americas, needs Stryper, or any band, to bring the message of Christ to the people there.
I find it hard to believe Stryper is still around.
sounds very complicated and messy. Personally I think Stryper were a little selfish in the situation. Just an opinion. I see both sides.
reaganaut,Sorry you got hurt.Almost happened to me same city and I just wanted to get a good priest there with a few good people and pray-I cancelled-very bad location.
It's not reasonable to expect them to do a concert in Mexico without work visas is it? Seems like that's a pretty critical part of the deal the Mexican promoters failed to uphold. What are they supposed to do -- face mexican jail, bribes and fines, and probably be prevented from performing anyway? This HAS happened with several artists attempting to work in Mexico without work visas.
Stryper incurred major costs in advance of the show expecting being able to perform. There's no way it is fair or reasonable to expect them to give back 100% of the advance money in this case, the promoter is at least partially culpable if the facts are accurate.
I hardly think $35,000 is being selfish. It's their job, and they have to pay themselves and their crew. They have to get themselves and their equipment to the gig.
Read points 4 and 5 of their reply. It sounds like the the promoters in mexico were in over their head and didn't know what to do. Part of the standard agreement is that you make a depsoit for the act as an insurance policy in case something goes wrong (In this case, the promoter note doing their job) and you find all the time and effort you put into it has been wasted, while you find yourself unable pick up other jobs because everything had been centered around that gig.
If anyone sounds bad in this, it's the promoting side that failed to live up to their terms of the agreement and are now trying to use the internet to bully stryper into giving the money back.
Personally, I think Mexico city is lucky. I've never cared much for "Christian music" since Keith Green died. Stryper -- ick. On the other hand, they WILL get Narnia, which IMHO, is one of the best bands out there. Maybe the only "Christian rock" band worth listening to.
Actually, that part is in question. According to the promoters and other bands all bands (incl. stryper) DID have work visas, they came in 2 1/2 hours after the Stryper imposed deadline, but still within plenty of time to make arrangements.
It wasn't $35,000 they were asking for it was $100,000. Also in the letter below, written by the guy from the Church, states that the band didn't send them decent promotional materials (pics, video, etc). Even if the group could only raise half the $$$ (the band got $56,000 in advace, all spent), the band also had t-shirts made up FOR THIS CONCERT, they should have gone, tried to sell the merch, recoup some losses, talk to the accountant and see about getting some more written off as a donation. Cancelling less than 48 hours is unprofessional. I used to be a Stryper fan, but things like this give Christians a bad name.
Miguel Marrtinez from the Underground Church in Mexico wrote on 13th of December:
Subject: Why?
Dave,
As thousands of people, we received the information you sent to the people
trough the stryper´s newsletter. I don´t understand why to do all the things
like this; making us appear as poor and beggars Mexicans asking for help,
trying with this to wake up the compassion from the people and using our
needle as an marketing strategy just for sell the T-shirts you previously
did but only for your exclusive gain. Why do you need to sell T-shirts for
have money when we sent cash, where is our money?
Why don´t you say to the people „the truth‰, that we sent to you trough many
sacrifices $56,500.00 US dollars? and that you have´n´t wanted to pay back
our money?; that we sent more than a half from the ridiculous, immense,
unfair and unreachable quantity you asked us of $100,000.00 US dollars, and
after requested you $95,000.00 when originally we agreed $35,000.00?
Why don´t you tell them that you didn´t kept your word and that you
cancelled because you wanted more money, that you wanted the $100,000.00 for
one concert in our country, limited resources country which incoming is
lower that a 1 to 10 relation with the US? In a country where the Labor Day
is paid in $ 4.00 or $ 5.00 US dollars while in your country the same Labor
Day is paid in more than $50.00 US dollars? Why´don´t you said to them that
even the money we sent is probably the biggest amount of money that nobody
have paid before to stryper for some concert in the latest years and even
more considering the economic situation and the per capita incoming of our
country? In other words, that all that we sent is proportionally more than
all stryper probably have received as a payment for a concert? Since the
money we paid its equal in work and effort for put it together as you had
paid $500,000.00 US dollars, why to ask us this amount? (Do you think that
we don´t know how much do you received for the concerts you did in the US
tour in 2003?). Why did you abused with an excessive fee to Mexico? Why you
din´t the concert if a more than enough amount of money was already paid?
Why don´t you tell to the people that now has been more than 25 days alter
your second cancellation in November 18th and that you haven´t wanted to pay
back our money even when you know that we have serious problems for each day
you are still keeping our money in your bank accounts or even when you
expensed it in things that have not relation with the visit to Mexico?
Why do you only say to the people that we didn´t fulfilled the contractŒs
scheme of payment, but why don´t you say to them that you were in agreement
with we in to pay as we was putting together the money and as a proof we
have the documents where you continued receiving the bank transferences and
that until the last days you were in agreement since otherwise you should
never continued with the negotiations? So, if we supposedly failed to the
contract in this point you failed in the same way when you continue with the
negotiation until you get from us the more of money and after you left us
aside and this have no name in Christian terms.
Why don´t you tell the people that a more than a fair price was already paid
to stryper for come to Mexico to play and that even like this you didn´t
came?
Why don´t you tell to the people that the Mexico concert should be one of
the biggest audiences for a stryper concert in the last years comparing wit
the audience you had in the US concerts last years where myself attended for
many?
Why don´t you say to the people that the only goal for the event was only to
preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the people and that Jesus never
received a single cent for preach, heal, deliver and save our lives?
Why don´t you say to the people that we asked and requested you for you had
some mercy of us and could come to Mexico that you didn´t cancel and you
never heard us? And even that you didn´t care for our petitions and our
request even when you had received thousands of dollars from us?
Why don´t you say to the people that God had mercy of stryper when they
separated from God and that even God has been having mercy of you every day
but even stryper or you had no mercy of us when we asked for come and not to
cancel and you took the worst decision?
Why do you tell to the people that we didn´t fulfilled with the visas papers
when you had in your hands the document that proves that the legal proceed
„was ready‰ even with two days prior to the event and that for come to
Mexico you don´t requires more than three or four hours, I mean that the
papers was ready wit more than enough time for com to Mexico and return to
the US more than five times?
Why don´t you say to the people that the mean cause of the delay in the
papers was your own delay you had in sending the passports copies which we
asked you weeks before the event and that you sent only one week before, but
even like this the documents were ready in an extraordinary way in only four
days when this papers can be proceeding even 30 days after?
Why don´t you say to the people in your mailing list that the documents were
ready two and a half hours alter a deadline you selfishly putted and that
deadline never appear in the so mentioned contract?
Why don´t you say to the people this and other truth instead to say to the
people the things according your convenient where you appear as the good
people and we as the bad ones?
Why don´t you tell to the people that as promoters, you never gave us your
support for a biggest diffusion and success of the event? That you don´t
even gave us a good logo from the band or a good variety of pictures, or
good quality videos and even a promotional disc you haven´t in good to send
us? That the only thing you said and asked in the 90% of your letters was
money, money and money?
Finally I say to you Dave with authority God has gave me, fix up your ways
while you have the time.
Until now we have kept the best attitude for you. Until now we haven´t went
to public with the truth about the things that happened since the beginning
of this. For now we have preferred to believe that will answer fairly. Until
now we haven´t answered to many people and the press that want to know the
truth about the facts in Mexico. Until now we have been the only affected
ones, until now we have kept silence for love to you and to stryper, but
over all for love to God.
We will be waiting in a good faith until the Wednesday December 15th of this
2004 for a fair answer from you, but no more!
The answer has to bring total and immediately solve, economic and morally to
this situation!
Please don´t disappoint us!
Miguel
Translated by Ricardo
Maybe they could get an equivalent flim-flam act, like Dr. Gene Scott, to fill in. He always seemed up for a good time.
Sounds like $35,000 was the deposit that was paid. That's the reason they're not getting it back.
And it sounds like this 'promoter' was in way over their head and didn't understand what's involved. Putting on a concert that involves acts flying in with equipment and crew
isn't like andy rooney putting on a show in the barn with the neighborhood kids.
This guy keeps whining about how poor mexico is, blah blah blah. It all sounds like effort to make stryper look bad while showering him with pity.
There's one thing that would settle this all: A contract. If they have one, they should post it or shut up.
I don't think I ever imagined there would come a day when I was defending stryper.
LOL, I saw Stryper play at Knotts Berry Farm in OC 10 years ago... had no idea they were still around.
Just admit it - you've got a couple of Stryper CDs stashed in the back of your sock drawer, where you think nobody will ever look ;)
From the article above: "At the time of Stryper's cancellation, they had been paid 56,500 US$ in advance. "
The contract was posted somewhere. I'm still looking for it, but I have seen reference to it. Stryper is complaining that someone posted it online, but I haven't found it yet.
The legalities of this are still being explored. But 2 1/2 hour difference in an non contratual time limit for the visas (Stryper is claiming that the promoters missed the deadline) isn't a "material breech of contract". The difficulty will be in trying to sue. If Stryper doesn't have any assets in Mexico (and I don't think they do) then they will have to be sued here in the States.
Regardless of the legalities, Stryper's behavior is IMO very Un-Christian. Which is sad, considering they believe themselves to be a "Christian" band. It makes Christians look bad, as the posts on some other boards attest.
I agree there are problems all the way around on this. I hate that this gives some people more reason to stay away from Christianity.
No way, I made fun of stryper back in the late 80's!
I just remember seeing pictures of the band and thinking of bumblebees in wigs.
First, as another poster said, I'm surprised Stryper's still around.
That said, this guy calling their $100,000 fee "unreasonable" rings hollow. They freely chose to agree to that fee. They can argue all they want about what happened, but to complain about a fee they agreed to takes away from what legitimate complaints he may have.
$100,000 is steep as Christian bands go (for example, it's more than Switchfoot charges, and they're much more popular) but it did require travel to Mexico, not a trivial operation with a rock band and all their equipment. It looks to me like Stryper did not want to do it, but decided, hey, let's throw a big number out there, and if they want to pay it, we'll do it. And they did...sort of.
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