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"I want to see it resolved without dividing our community," she said.

Trustee Lori Jeffrey-Clark succeeded in making the pledge part of meetings in May.

In September, Trustee David Habecker said he would stay silently seated during the pledge because the founding fathers wanted to separate church and state.

The pledge was written in 1892, but the words "under God" weren't added until 1954 during Sen. Joe McCarthy's witch hunt for godless communists, Habecker said.

Richard Clark, Jeffrey-Clark's husband, started a drive in November to recall Habecker and gathered enough signatures for a special election.

A date for the recall election will be set Tuesday.

Life in Estes Park is usually harmonious. In winter, there are few tourists and many of the summer residents have gone. Many businesses close.

Folks catch up on bookkeeping, chores and friendships and get ready for the holidays.

Not this year.

There's talk of business boycotts, secret agendas and grudges.

"It's gathered a lot of attention," said Lisa Pogue, news editor at the Estes Park Trail Gazette. "We get an abundance of letters on the issue every week."

Norm Pritchard helped gather signatures for the recall because he didn't think a public official should use dramatics to air a personal view.

But he agrees with Habecker on one issue - the rising political power of conservative Christians is troubling.

"Any fanatically religious group scares me, especially as a voting block," said Pritchard, who owns a bed and breakfast lodge.

And, when he was gathering signatures, Pritchard said many of the residents who signed did so for what he considers the wrong reasons.

"They thought it was unpatriotic," said Pritchard, who believes Habecker has a constitutional right to free speech but is going about it in the wrong way. "(Some petition signers) don't give a damn about constitutional rights."

The authors of the Constitution intentionally kept God out of the document and guaranteed the right to free speech.

In fact, the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, minister Francis Bellamy, presumably would have not wanted God in the oath, said Lief Carter, a professor at Colorado College.

"He supported a separation of church and state," said Carter, who has a law degree from Harvard and a doctorate in political science.

"He didn't want us to think of this as a country under God in the same way that Osama bin Laden thinks that what he does is the will of God," said Carter.

Wagner is voting against the recall because, "there's nothing more American than protesting." But she wishes the conflict would go away.

"It's almost depressing that our town is focusing on this, and the real business that we need to focus on - such as parking and the environment - is being ignored," she said.

1 posted on 12/09/2004 12:52:42 AM PST by ajolympian2004
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To: ajolympian2004

You know, I could possibly see not voting for this guy again because of this, but does sitting down during the pledge for religious really justify the expense of a recall and subsequent special election?


2 posted on 12/09/2004 12:56:03 AM PST by Melas
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To: ajolympian2004

I'm really glad to see that parking and the environment are equally weighty issues in Estes.


3 posted on 12/09/2004 12:58:08 AM PST by shibumi (John Galt is alive and well. He tends bar in a casino restaurant.)
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To: ajolympian2004

...maybe 'under allah' would work better for them...


4 posted on 12/09/2004 1:00:26 AM PST by ApesForEvolution (You will NEVER convince me that Muhammadanism isn't a death cult that must end. Save your time...)
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To: ajolympian2004; All

Obviously this guy Carter, while getting his Harvard Law Degree and his PhD (Piled Higher and Deeper) in Political Science, failed to notice that the term "...separation of church and state..." occurs NOWHERE in the founding documents of this nation.


8 posted on 12/09/2004 1:10:31 AM PST by shibumi (John Galt is alive and well. He tends bar in a casino restaurant.)
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To: ajolympian2004
Wagner is voting against the recall because, "there's nothing more American than protesting." But she wishes the conflict would go away.

I hope the rats continue to protest, and loudly proclaim their Godless American hating elitist liberalism. Then I hope they continue to whine when the voters proclaim that those who would represent the people must represent the people.

10 posted on 12/09/2004 1:25:14 AM PST by Once-Ler ("He lives in Madison, WI. No wonder he thinks Bush is a conservative!")
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To: ajolympian2004

smug idiots need to learn some more history instead of parroting secular extremist talking points


11 posted on 12/09/2004 1:53:43 AM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: ajolympian2004
"a town trustee's refusal to recite the Pledge of Allegiance is redefining the community"

No, it's clarifying the community's values. The so-called "trustee" is correctly seen as a trouble-maker. He does not have to be religious to pledge allegiance.

16 posted on 12/09/2004 2:36:26 AM PST by NetValue (Trust the cobra before you trust the liberal.)
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To: ajolympian2004
Someone tell me again why citizens of a free country are reciting pledges. This is something I would expect in North Korea or China.

Francis Bellamy was a socialist nutjob obsessed with preventing another attempt at secession: one nation, indivisible...It's like he's rubbing the South's face in it. Is the "indivisibility" of our "one" nation anywhere in the Constitution? Are any states currently trying to split? It's as relevant as a pledge that insists on our autonomy from Britain.

23 posted on 12/09/2004 3:38:41 AM PST by Tristram Shandy (The Dude abides)
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To: ajolympian2004
Mike Dukakis did something very much along these lines when he sat on the Brookline (Mass.) Board of Selectmen.

'Nuff said!
26 posted on 12/09/2004 4:29:24 AM PST by Gay State Conservative
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To: ajolympian2004

ROFL, serves the goober right. He could have just skipped the part he didn't like. Sitting for the PoA just shows he's and anti-Amercian Clymer.


27 posted on 12/09/2004 4:31:27 AM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: ajolympian2004
"Any fanatically religious group scares me, especially as a voting block,"
said Pritchard, who owns a bed and breakfast lodge.

Ahhhh, I see, Christians are now defined as fanatics.
I wonder if the Dems getting 98% of the black vote every year scares him?
Unbelievable.

30 posted on 12/09/2004 4:37:47 AM PST by oh8eleven
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To: ajolympian2004

BELLAMY WAS AN UNBELIEVER-AND A SOCIALIST. THE GUY HAS A
RIGHT TO NOT PARTICIPATE.AND A PETITION FOR HIS REMOVAL OUGHT BE ON GROUNDS OF INCOMPETANCE--NOT RESTRICTED TO HIS
IGNORANCE,OR MISUNDERSTANDING OF AMERICAN HISTORY. I ALWAYS
BELIEVE DESTES PARK WAS JEALOUS OF ASPEN AND VAIL TOO RICH
AND ELITIST FOR MY FAVOR.


31 posted on 12/09/2004 4:56:17 AM PST by StonyBurk
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To: ajolympian2004

MORON ALERT!!

The authors of the Constitution intentionally kept God out of the document and guaranteed the right to free speech.

Yo - dipwad, James Madison authored the Constitution. And FYI, Thomas Jefferson authored the Declaration of Independence (where God is referenced).

And jacka$$, explain this if 'God' is NOT in the Constitution:

Preamble
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Now if not God, exactly whom were 'we' asking to secure "blessings", huh?!? The frigging King of Siam?!?
33 posted on 12/09/2004 5:48:26 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: ajolympian2004

Conservative Christians are fanatics?

YAY! I've made the big time!! I'm a fanatic!!


34 posted on 12/09/2004 6:10:08 AM PST by Tennessee_Bob (Come on you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?)
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To: ajolympian2004; All

Rocky Mountain News

URL: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3507014,00.html

Estes Park faces pledge lawsuit
By Karen Abbott, Rocky Mountain News
January 29, 2005

Estes Park Trustee David Habecker, who refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance at town meetings, on Friday sued his fellow town officials and a committee seeking to recall him.

The lawsuit asks a federal judge to stop the recall effort on the grounds that Habecker has a First Amendment right not to recite the pledge, for both freedom of speech and freedom of religion reasons. His lawsuit calls the phrase "under God" in the pledge a government establishment of religion in violation of the U.S. Constitution.

The lawsuit also asks a judge to stop the recitation of the pledge during board of trustees meetings, a practice that began in mid-2004, Habecker said.

Estes Park Town Attorney Greg White said he had not seen the lawsuit and could not comment.

Habecker, 59, and his wife have lived in Estes Park since 1977.

"He is opposed to the phrase 'under God' not only because it violates his religious convictions, but also because he conscientiously believes the phrase is at odds with our constitutional system of secular government," his lawsuit said.

A fellow town trustee has called Habecker "unpatriotic." The recall committee has accused him of unethically hiding his views on the pledge from voters during the 2002 town election. The lawsuit said the pledge wasn't being recited at meetings at the time and thus was not an issue.

Copyright 2005, Rocky Mountain News. All Rights Reserved.


65 posted on 01/29/2005 8:41:53 AM PST by united1000
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To: ajolympian2004
Have you seen the latest on this story? Habecker has won an injunction to stay the recall election from a Federal judge in Denver. As could have been predicted (in fact my wife did last Nov.) he is taking this to the Federal level. He has addressed some group in Ft. Collins where he stated that his true goal is to remove "under God", and in fact the whole Pledge of Allegiance, from public schools.

Some good letters in the Estes Park Trail-Gazette

68 posted on 02/19/2005 6:22:07 AM PST by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do.)
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