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Attorneys Want Gun Maker Held Responsible In Florida Teacher Shooting
News4Jax ^ | December 7, 2004

Posted on 12/08/2004 2:14:16 PM PST by TERMINATTOR

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- An attorney for the widow of a middle school teacher gunned down by a student argued before an appellate court Tuesday that the gun distributor was negligent in selling the cheap weapon and should be held liable.

Attorney Edna Caruso said federal officials told Valor Corp. for years that its .25-caliber Raven handgun was frequently used in crimes and that the company had a legal responsibility to make the weapons safer.

"Here we have a distributor that is known to distribute crime guns. It's been warned for years and years and years," Caruso said. "It says, 'I don't care because it's legal.' Well, just because something's legal doesn't mean it's not negligent.

Barry GrunowAttorneys for Valor said the company cannot be considered negligent if someone uses the gun for a crime. They argue that teenager Nathaniel Brazill, who killed Barry Grunow (pictured, right) outside his Lake Worth Middle School classroom in May 2000, is to blame, along with family friend Elmore McCray, who stored the unlocked and loaded gun in a drawer, where Brazill found it.

Jurors in the November 2002 trial in the case largely spared Valor Corp. from blame. Grunow's attorneys asked for a $75 million judgment against the company, but jurors ordered the company to pay only $1.2 million to Pam Grunow and her two young children. A judge then threw out that verdict, and Pam Grunow appealed to the 4th District Court of Appeal.

Judge Mark E. Polen questioned whether Valor had a legal duty to protect society from the weapons it distributed. He said while he did not disagree "philosophically" with Grunow's claims, the issues might better be decided by the Legislature, not the courts.

"There was no evidence in this case that Valor was setting up little stands on street corners in dangerous neighborhoods. They were selling this gun to licensed dealers. Like any firearm, or any weapon, knife, billy club, whatever, Chinese stars, they can fall into the hands of criminals," Polen said. "Is that manufacturer or distributor liable to third-parties that were injured?"

But Judge Robert M. Gross quoted an earlier Florida Supreme Court ruling on another case: "Where a defendant's conduct creates a foreseeable zone of risk, the law generally will recognize a duty to either lessen the risk or see that sufficient precautions are taken to protect others from the harm the risk poses."

"The plaintiff argues that your client created a foreseeable zone of risk," Gross said to Valor attorney Tom Warner. "Then why isn't a duty created?"

Warner told the three-judge panel that the jury agreed the gun was not defective and not unreasonably dangerous. He said Valor can't be blamed for a criminal act that happened 12 years after the gun was sold.

Grunow's lawsuit against Valor was the first brought against the firearms industry to target the absence of a gun lock and the overall design of a cheap, easily concealable weapon known on the streets as a "Saturday Night Special." At the time, gun safety advocates said the verdict could force the industry to make safer guns.

Grunow, who made no comment on Tuesday, has said she wanted a large verdict to call attention to the dangerous weapons and their frequent use in crimes. Her attorneys are hoping the appeals court will reinstate more than the original $1.2 million verdict.

In the case, jurors said Grunow deserved $24 million but they also held Valor only 5 percent responsible in the shooting death, meaning she would have collected only a small fraction of the sum.

Jurors assigned half of the blame to McCray, and another 45 percent of the blame to the School Board for allowing Brazill to bring a weapon that he hid in his pocket onto campus. Nathaniel Brazill The School Board, McCray, and the pawn shop where he bought the gun settled with Grunow for a total of about $820,000.

Brazill (pictured, left), now 18, was sentenced to 28 years for killing his teacher. He said he pointed the handgun at Grunow to scare him and never intended to pull the trigger. He stole the gun from McCray after being sent home on the last day of school for throwing water balloons. He returned to campus to say goodbye to two girls and became angry when Grunow wouldn't let him inside his classroom.

The appeals court could take months to decide the case.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 25caliberraven; banglist; criminalact; itslegal; negligent; notdefective; pulledthetrigger; saferguns; stolethegun; zoneofrisk
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To: TERMINATTOR

Next, they will be suing Jack Daniels and General motors for drunken driving deaths. After all, both companies KNOW that people will drink and drive.


41 posted on 12/08/2004 2:54:47 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Shellback Chuck

Anyone know what the muzzle speed of the average .25 cal is?
I'm always amazed to hear people actually get killed with such a pip-squeek cal. I was under the impression that it would bounce off someones skull...and barely make it through a quality bombers leather jacket and all the way into some vital organs. Obviously I am seriously mistaken.


42 posted on 12/08/2004 2:55:18 PM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Angry Republican
So sue the bullet makers.

Don't go giving anybody any ideas!

43 posted on 12/08/2004 2:59:41 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: G32

I am in favor of an intelligence test. First, lay a couple of handguns in a room on a table, then let people in the room and see what they do. If either of them does anything grossly unsafe, grab them immediately and tattoo an "S" for "stupid" on their forehead and never let them own a gun.


44 posted on 12/08/2004 3:00:02 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: taxed2death
As a former felony state prosecutor, I would routinely go to police interviews. As a young pup out of law school I was always eager to learn new stuff. Once during a intercity robbery suspect's interview he described a "Keep-off" as a .25 - .32 doesn't kill anyone, it just keeps them off you. Novel?
45 posted on 12/08/2004 3:02:29 PM PST by jmq
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To: jmq
25 - .32 doesn't kill anyone, it just keeps them off you....

Actually it should read: .25-.32 doesn't kill anyone right away, it may take them several weeks to die....but it will keep them off you in the near term.

46 posted on 12/08/2004 3:05:18 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: taxed2death
You can kill someone with a pellet gun if you hit them in the right spot. Suing a gun manufacturer is insane. Who are they gonna sue when someone is killed with a "zip gun"?
47 posted on 12/08/2004 3:05:51 PM PST by Shellback Chuck (Hey John, whose your daddy?)
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To: TERMINATTOR
Attorney Edna Caruso said federal officials told Valor Corp. for years that its .25-caliber Raven handgun was frequently used in crimes and that the company had a legal responsibility to make the weapons safer.

The gun was not unsafe -- it operated exactly the way ANY gun is designed to operate.

She's upset that a manufacturor makes an inexpensive gun. They are serving a legimate market: people who need a firearm for self-protection, but are too poor to afford a $2,000 custom-tuned 1911. Low income, and the need for protection against crime, very frequently come together

48 posted on 12/08/2004 3:13:06 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (We are going to fight until hell freezes over and then we are going to fight on the ice)
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To: 45Auto

"... Still, a single round of .40 in the upper torso is going to have a startling and surprising effect on any assorted vermin...."


As retired LEO & Range Master, we used to say the bigger the hole the faster you let the air out. Cheers.


49 posted on 12/08/2004 3:13:18 PM PST by Chinito (6990th Security Squadron - RC135 - Combat Apple '69)
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To: TERMINATTOR
What do you expect it Palm Beach County, all liberal democraps, when you go to the keys to fish, you drive around this county as much as possible, don't buy any gas or food or even pee in this county, we just ignore the damn fools. Nothing but a bunch of dumb liberal northerners live there, play golf and scratch there behinds.
50 posted on 12/08/2004 3:15:47 PM PST by lucky7
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Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: TERMINATTOR

What product liability? The gun worked perfectly.


52 posted on 12/08/2004 3:17:20 PM PST by stevefromcalifornia
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To: TERMINATTOR

A gun is as safe as the person behind that. This should have been summarily dismissed with the attorney getting his ass kicked legally for bringing this case.


53 posted on 12/08/2004 3:18:06 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("BZZZZZT You are fined one credit for violation of the Verbal Morality Statute")
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To: TERMINATTOR

If guns kill people where are mine hiding all the bodies ?


54 posted on 12/08/2004 3:18:09 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (Lord, place the steel of the Holy Spirit in my spine and the love of the Holy Ghost in my heart.)
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Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: Dan from Michigan
("BZZZZZT You are fined one credit for violation of the Verbal Morality Statute")

I love that movie especially the part about running through the street naked with green jello all over my body OH ! and rat burgers

He he he

56 posted on 12/08/2004 3:20:37 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (Lord, place the steel of the Holy Spirit in my spine and the love of the Holy Ghost in my heart.)
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
LOL

I'm getting sick of all these lawsuits by the greedy and the demented -- they have turned into legal extortion.

57 posted on 12/08/2004 3:22:50 PM PST by Dante3
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To: TERMINATTOR

Just once I'd like to see a judge sanction these shysters' butts.

58 posted on 12/08/2004 3:23:49 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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To: taxed2death
Anyone know what the muzzle speed of the average .25 cal is? I'm always amazed to hear people actually get killed with such a pip-squeek cal....

Well, your question is a tad ambiguous but I'll give it a shot (no pun intended).

Remington 25 (6.35mm) Auto.

R25AP Remington® Express 50 gr bullet
VELOCITY (ft/sec); 760 muzzle, 707 @50ft, 659 @ 100ft
ENERGY (ft-lbs); 64 @ muzzle, 56 @ 50 ft, 48 @100 ft
MID-RANGE TRAJECTORY; 2.0"@50ft, 8.7"@100ft

In any case you're correct, the energy in ft-lbs is pathetic. However from 'up close & personal' it's very effective to the back of the head. That's why wise-guys use a .22LR --- uh, that's what I hear anyway :-)

Note all the stats are the same for Remington UMC ammo. And there may be some 'hot loads' made in .25 auto, that I didn't check.

59 posted on 12/08/2004 3:25:06 PM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: RockinRight

No, just made safer. NOW has a proposal for a male chastity belt that involves a bear trap. It's also a recruiting device--if a man gets caught in it, he'll be a natural candidate for next year's NOW board of directors.


60 posted on 12/08/2004 3:25:49 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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