Posted on 12/07/2004 7:13:00 PM PST by CurlyBill
see 140
Very true. Actually, most if not all people have demons connected to their particular sins. However, this level of demonization is mostly temptation, and sometimes illness, rather than resulting in the kind of mental derangement that people think of as full "possession."
To avoid that, you have to do two things when dealing with a hefty demon. First, make sure that none of the team are currently walking in sin, and that everyone has confessed and repented of their sins. This keeps the doors that demons use to get in closed. And second, from the outset you bind the demons from attacking the ministry team.
According to these exorcists, the biggest risk factor for demonic possession is the victim's previous involvement with the occult.
That's where the more powerful possessing spirits tend to come from, yes. You can get some pretty hefty ones from sexual sins too.
Additionally, exorcisms can become violent. It can take several grown men to hold down a possessed person.
That's why, unless your hand is forced, you conduct a deliverance session in a group. Binding the demon from the first will almost always prevent this, and if they do manifest with supernatural strength, you can bind it on the spot then.
Having additional people is also useful for preventing the demon from causing self-harm to the afflicted.
My mentor's experience (20 years worth) is that in people who come forward and say that they want deliverance, the demons tend to go pretty quickly and neatly without a lot of fighting back. It's in those who won't (or are so far gone that they can't) directly ask for deliverance that you get the most manifestations.
I've seen footage of non-Catholic exorcisms where the demons have jumped into the people praying over the possessed person.
I've heard of this happening in Catholic exorcisms too. Basically, this stems from a couple of things. First, failure to bind the demon against going after the deliverence team at the start. Second, someone in the team having an open door or selfish motivations. Or third, I've heard of cases where the person doing the deliverance got discouraged with a particularly strong or tenacious demon and offered to let it enter them if it would leave the first victim alone. (I seem to remember the movie The Exorcist ending that way.) That simply doesn't work, and since they entered with full permission, getting them back out again can be very difficult (though not impossible).
Of course, you never do deliverance on someone without their permission, or the permission of their parents/guardians (in the case of children and the incapacitated), unless God were to specifically tell you to (which is very, very rare, if it ever happens). You also never do it on someone who is not a Christian. Doing so just opens the door for seven more.
An interesting story about that: Back while he was still learning about all this (back in the days when nobody spoke or wrote about it), my mentor received a phone call from someone who said she was possessed and threatened to kill herself. Without first asking if she was a Christian or was ready to become one, he did the deliverance over the phone. When he was done, he said, "Okay, now let's talk about Jesus."
"No, thanks," she said. "I'm a witch, and I wanted you to get rid of that demon so that I could get seven more and become more powerful."
With territorial spirits (the kind that haunt houses instead of people), you likewise don't go after them without the property owner's permission unless God tells you to go ahead (as He did in a particular instance just the other day with me and my partner). If it's yours, you don't need anyone else's permission, of course. In most cases, there's a particular curse that needs to be broken before the demons can be expelled and the property annointed. Sometimes you can find out the curse by checking that property's history. Sometimes God will tell you directly (as He did with us the other night).
Breaking curses isn't any more difficult than casting out demons, by the way. You don't have to have any special key other than the knowledge of the curse--after that, it's just breaking it in the Name of Jesus (who after all became a curse for us when He hung on a tree). Then you kick out the demons associated with the curse and command them not to return.
In any case, the territorial demons tend to be pretty big and nasty, and it can take a while to get rid of them even after the curse is broken. On the other hand, you don't have to deal with a person thrashing around and screaming, so in some ways it's easier.
You have to be careful and in the Lord, but you don't have to fear fallen angels, demons, and occultists. On the contrary, if the Lord is for you, who can be against you?
A believing Chritian would not lie through her teeth for 15 minutes of fame and a possible book deal.
"We spent the night at the haunted house and nothing happened" does not sell.
Demons can possess anyone who is not a Christian. (that is has repented of their sin, accepts Jesus as the son of God and asks Him to be Lord and Savior of their life). Once they are saved they are indwelled with the Holy Spirit.
At that point they can no longer be possessed (the Holy Spirit is not going to share His temple with demons). However they can be oppressed. If the enemy can lie to us enough and get us to believe something (such as we are ill) then he's got control of our minds. We are not possessed but we are oppressed. Subtle but important difference.
According to these exorcists, the biggest risk factor for demonic possession is the victim's previous involvement with the occult.
True. Don't open doors that you don't want used.
Additionally, exorcisms can become violent. It can take several grown men to hold down a possessed person.
Or one person full of the knowledge and the power of God. We have all authority over all the power of the enemy.
That's true in and of itself, but there's another aspect to it too. While fasting is traditionally associated with giving up food, it isn't limited to that. One can "fast" from the internet, for example, or from sex with your spouse (by mutual consent and only for a time, per Paul), or from anything else that brings pleasure to the flesh.
In many cases, serious demonization is associated with some specific sin, and until the person is willing to break all ties with that sin, the demons can't be removed. "Fasting" in this case may refer to that kind of giving something pleasurable up that is a gateway.
Let me give a personal example: I happened to love comic books as a kid (and still do, though I don't actively collect). Unfortunately, because in many cases I bought certain comics solely because I wanted to see the babes in spandex (gimme a break, I was in my teens), they became a gateway. It was revealed to me the other night that I need to make a clean break from those comics and toss them out, and I'm in the process of getting rid of the problem books (I may end up just tossing out the whole collection).
Now, I'm not saying that comic books are evil or satanic or that nobody should collect Superman if they enjoy it. What I'm saying is that in my case they were a gateway, so I'm "fasting" from them in order to seal off a door. For another person, comics might not be a problem, but idolizing a sports hero, something that has no draw for me, might be (just for example). In that case, he may need to "fast" from that sport for a time or permanently, while I could continue to watch and/or participate to my enjoyment.
The particulars are not set in stone. It's a matter of being willing to give up certain things that have a hold on you for God.
True, and an important distinction. Christians can still be demonized (simply having the Holy Spirit indwelling the temple of your body no more prevents demons from entering than having the glory of God in Solomon's Temple kept the Jews from populating it with idols. However, we cannot be totally possessed by the Enemy, being already the possession of Christ.
But that doesn't mean that demons cannot cause severe problems or that Christians should be under the belief that they cannot be attacked or even indwelt by the demonic if they do not take the authority Christ gave them to kick the demons out.
The massacre at New Orleans happened on January 8, 1815.
Well said. On the other end of the scale is the belief that "good" people die and become angels (e.g., "It's a Wonderful Life").
I don't believe in ghosts, but....
My daughter had a recurring dream for about a year about a girl in an attic, surrounded by boxes and things. In May, my daughter came downstairs one morning and said that she was so relieved that she wasn't going to have the dream any more because she had it last night and the family moved out of the house and let the girl out of the attic.
She works as a nanny for a local couple who moved in June. When my daughter went to work at the new house
and she found that attic from her dream. The next morning while she was resting on the sofa while the child (a 2 year old) napped, my daughter thought she saw a young girl run through the room, screaming. She said nothing to anyone but me. The next morning when she went to work, the mother told her that the child hadn't slept all night because she said that there was someone in her room (the child had been sleeping there for several weeks before my daughter came back to work).
Anyway, things quieted down and were pretty much forgotten, until a few days ago when the mother had another problem with the two year old. The mother was in one of the bedrooms putting away laundry and the child was playing in the closet. The mother was finished and called to the child to leave the room. The child answered, "Come back here, I'm not done with you." The mother said, "What?" and the two and a half year old answered, "I'm not done with you, I'm not done fucking you." The mother again asked her what she said and the child repeated it. I don't know what the explanation is, but it is very weird for a two year old to be able to use that kind of language in the proper sense.
Oh, I forgot to mention that the house had been used by a forensic psychiatrist as a vocational rehabilitation home for Canadian criminials. The woman worked for the BC government. I'm sure that it was totally illegal, but it still went on.
agreed
I didn't say *every* place that had a bad history had "ghosts." I said "some."
I don't claim to understand it.
Hence the difference between possessed and oppressed. I cannot as a Christian be possessed. Jesus already owns me and He's not giving me up. I can however, if I get real stupid, invite things in that I really don't want in. Thus ending up oppressed by those things. Again subtle but important difference. I've had it explained to me that a possesed person has the demons in them controlling them while an oppressed person has the demons outside of them strongly influencing them (the old devil on the shoulder thing)
Whoa.
Great post, and God bless your work. I don't think I have the stomach for it myself.
FYI, I think the Church limits exorcism to the clergy because of the grace conferred by Holy Orders, and because, like you say, the exorcist has to be trained to resist the devil's tricks, the major one being tempting the priest to rely on his own strength rather than Jesus.
If you haven't read it, I highly recommend Malachi Martin's "Hostage to the Devil." Scary as hell though.
"An Exorcist Tells His Story" is also worthwhile.
Makes sense.
The fact that so many people in our society have been baptized is also one explanation for the apparent lack of demonic activity in our age, at least in comparison to Biblical times.
But as our society becomes more anti-Christian, overtly demonic manifestations will increase.
Thanks for bearing through my clarification.
I know nothing about scientific or intellectual speculations concerning 'ghosts' or 'hauntings', but I do have an extraordinary experience I'd like to share...(also, I admittedly lack technical skill as a writer, so please bear with me as you read this):
Years ago we lived in a house which was situated on a hill in a way that allowed a clear and direct view of 3 other homes from our bedroom window. These homes were newly built and although 2 sold immediately one remained empty for quite a long time. The builder finally opted to lease out the unsold house and soon it too was occupied.
I happened to be home sick with the flu shortly after the tenants of the leased house had moved in and as I lay in bed I notice 2 small terriers looking out a big window of the newly leased house. The dogs looked to be of the same breed as my own little terrier ~ which was not a common breed by any means and it seemed like a neat coincidence that our new neighbors owned 2 of these great little guys. I was kind of excited at this prospect but I was also really sick and felt like crap so I just made a mental note to go over and introduce myself (and my dog) to our new neighbors once I was on the mend.
Well, before the week was out (and before I'd had a chance to go over and say "Hi") I was surprised to see a moving van back at the leased housed and the new tenants were gone almost as quickly as they'd arrived. We thought it was odd but not so odd as to cause concern. The hill on which these homes were located had really steep driveways that were very difficult to maneuver ~ cars often missed the sharp turns and ended up going over the edge. Not really dangerous but very costly to extract and repair, so we sort of figured the leasers might have found living there too much trouble and opted out.
The following week I returned to work and, after a day or so, I notice our little terrier began to behave in a way that was both startlingly and bizarre. The best way I can describe this behavior is that he suddenly seemed to have invisible friend. It was the strangest thing ~ it was like watching him when he played with one of our nieces or nephews, except that there was no one there. He'd do his tricks....he'd play chase.....he'd even gently lick the air like he was giving "kisses" to someone. Sometimes he'd get tired of 'playing' and, just as he'd do with a bothersome child, he'd go into his little ears back, lip slightly curled, mock snippy "leave me alone now or I'll bite ya" routine!! It was fascinating to watch!!
Often, in the evening when we'd be in bed watching TV or reading with the dog sleeping quietly next to us, the dog would wake up, raise and cock his head for a moment or two (like he did when we'd give him an ear scratch or chin tickle) and then he'd give his gentlest puppy licks to whoever this special friend was that only he could see.
This relationship between dog and 'friend' went on for months ~ visiting friends and family members watched in utter amazement as this dog 'played' with his invisible friend. Watching him so obviously interact with something none of us could see was mind-blowing to say the least!! It really freaked out several folks ~ there were two very old and very large cemeteries on the hill our house set on and the general consensus came to be that a spirit or a ghost from one of those cemeteries had moved into our home.
My mother was a deeply religious woman and while watching our dog play with his "friend" for a while one afternoon asked me if it frightened me that a unknown spirit seemed to have taken up residence in my home.
It was an interesting question because I really hadn't thought about it in those terms ~ so I thought about it for a minute and realized that, while it was disconcerting, it wasn't really frightening in any way. Whatever or whoever it was unclear but what was clear was that our dog genuinely liked it ~ watching this dog play with his "friend" was like watching him interacting with a child he liked very much. So much so that I told Mom, if this was a spirit, it must be the spirit of a child and the spirit and the dog seem very happy together. (BTW, I did have the dog checked out by the vet to make sure he was suddenly experiencing neuro or physiological problems ~ he checked out fine) At any rate, weird as it was, we all finally came to except that this dog had a special invisible "friend" only he could see.
Finally, late one evening, I heard a loud commotion outside and when I went to my window I could see lots of police cars parked at the bottom of the hill. Police officers were rushing up and down the driveway that led to the 3 homes I could see from the bedroom window and there were TV news crews, complete with lights and cameras, crawling all over the place. My first thought was big a drug bust must be going down ~ I couldn't think of anything else that would generate that much police and media attention in the middle of the night. Curious, my hubby and I dressed and went out to find out what was going on.
It turned out that the "leased" house had been leased by 2 young women (ages 20 and 22) who, shortly after they moved, had met up a young man in a bar and invited him to move in with them. Apparently this young man was new in town from out of state, he was dealing drugs, had a brand new BMW and lots of cash so these enterprising young 'ladies' decided they could kill him, hide his body, split his wealth, move away and no one would ever know. They murdered him, stuffed his body thru a small trapdoor in a closet floor and cemented his remains into the one of the walls in the crawl space under the house! They then divvied up the young man's money and belongings and moved out the following the day.
The man had no family or friends in the area and was never reported as missing there and, after the failed leasing attempt, the builder decided to put the house back on the market for sale and it had remained empty. These women really would have gotten away with this crime completely (and the body might never have been found) had one of the young woman not eventually joined some religious cult in another state and finally confessed to the members there what she'd done. Thankfully, the cult members reported the crime to the authorities which led the police to makeshift 'grave' next door us.
It took the police most of the evening to extract the poor man's remains from beneath the house and, after the remains were removed, we never again saw our dog play with his "friend"!
Like I said, I know nothing about "ghosts" and "hauntings" but there isn't a doubt in my mind that the spirit of that murdered young man sought out, befriended and stayed with a creature who was aware of his presence ~ our wonderful little terrier.
I often think of this young man ~ mind you I've no warm spot in my heart for drug dealers but I cannot help but cherish how tender and childlike his relationship with our dog seemed. I think, too, of this young man's family ~ what it must have been like for them to receive the news of this son's death. I've always sort of wanted to let his family know that, while his body lay hidden away in the dank, dark crawl space of that vacant house his spirit had a very, very dear friend who lovingly kept him company until his remains could be taken and laid to rest.
PS ~ I think my Mom's favorite Einstein quote might also be 'relevant' to this thread:
Care to try it out?
If they are lost, they are in hell awaiting the judgment.
I agree that demonic activity most likely fits ghosts.
HOWEVER, I also believe that some ghost activity may in fact be just plain remnant energy of some kind we can not fully understand yet.....not actually a spirit or demon, just some sort of energy.
Those may be the cases in which you just feel a chill or see an apparition but nothing ever physically bothers you.
When something physically bothers you, that is definitely a demon.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.