What Is a Dead Language Doing in the 21st Century?

e3mil.com ^ | 12/04/2004 | Sue Reilly

[msdrby]

The orignial palestinians were Aegean.

Well, they were not wiped out as Israelites were told to do, but those who call themselves Palestinians today are exhibiting wishful thinking. They are still arabs. It's all in the genes.

[Peelod]

Caesar fidem scit.

[msdrby]

Nice chart. Where did the semitic languages go, or did I just miss them?

[Servant of the 9]

Carpe diem!!!!!!

Carpe Jugulum

So9

[Antoninus]

Dignum et iustum est.

[TheSpottedOwl]

Thanks for the ping. Right now my youngest is in home studies. I should check and see if they offer Latin. I belive they do offer Spanish, which would probably come in handy since we live in CA :-(

[Betis70]

My Catholic high school stopped offering Latin classes when my older brother went through. His was the last cohort required to take Latin.

I've searched for a local school that offers it, but with little luck. Maybe I'll look again.

[Nick Danger]

Yes. That was part of Roman law. The party of the first part surrendered to the party of the second part, and then the party of the third part took place over wine and cheese.

[Betis70]

It is a chart of only Indo-European languages, therefore Semitic languages wouldn't be on it.

Cronos, that chart looks awfully familiar. Did this come up before on FR sometime last year maybe? I forget the context though (too many pucks to the head lately). I need to take some more language and linguistic classes.

[No_Outcome_But_Victory]

---

First Declension
Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative:	a	ae
Genitive:	ae	arum
Dative:	ae	is
Accusative:	am	as
Ablative:	a	is
Vocative:	a	ae

Second Declension
Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative:	us	i
Genitive:	i	orum
Dative:	o	is
Accusative:	um	os
Ablative:	o	is
Vocative:	e	i

Third Declension   masc. / fem.
Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative:	varies	es
Genitive:	is	ium, um
Dative:	i	ibus
Accusative:	em	es
Ablative:	e, i	ibus
Vocative:	varies	es

---

Fourth Declension   masc. / neuter
Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative:	us / u	us / ua
Genitive:	us / us	uum / uum
Dative:	ui / u	ibus / ibus
Accusative:	um / u	us / ua
Ablative:	u / u	ibus / ibus
Vocative:	us / u	us / ua

Fifth Declension   feminine
Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative:	es	es
Genitive:	ei	erum
Dative:	ei	ebus
Accusative:	em	es
Ablative:	e	ebus
Vocative:	es	es

Third Declension   neuter
Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative:	varies, is	ia, a
Genitive:	is	ium, um
Dative:	i	ibus
Accusative:	varies	ia, a
Ablative:	i, e	ibus
Vocative:	varies	ia, a

---

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Veritas Rex

[Lockbar]

Perhaps this is what Alexander the Great might want to say to the young people of the 21st Century:

"Ego sum non a Homo"

[N. Theknow]

semper ubi sub ubi

And for your Mother's sake, make sure it is clean.

[george wythe]

Examples of English equivalents:

Nominative : I, George

Genitive: Mine, George's

Dative: [to] me, [to] George

Accusative: Me, George

etc, etc,

Am I in the right track?

[Cronos]

The chart only depicts Indo-European/Aryan languages. Semitic languages form a different language family

[Cronos]

The party of the first part surrendered to the party of the second part, and then the party of the third part took place over wine and cheese.

Kinda reminds me of "A night at the Opera" dialogue:

Driftwood: All right, fine. Now here are the contracts. You just put his name at the top and you sign at the bottom. There's no need of you reading that because these are duplicates.
Fiorello: Yeah, they's a duplicates.
Driftwood: I say they're duplicates.
Fiorello: Why sure they's a duplicates...
Driftwood: Don't you know what duplicates are?
Fiorello: Sure. There's five kids up in Canada.
Driftwood: Well, I wouldn't know about that. I haven't been to Canada in years. Well go ahead and read it.
Fiorello: What does it say?
Driftwood: Well, go on and read it!
Fiorello: You read it.
Driftwood: All right, I'll read it to you. Can you hear?
Fiorello: I haven't heard anything yet. Did you say anything?
Driftwood: Well, I haven't said anything worth hearing.
Fiorello: Well, that's-a why I didn't hear anything.
Driftwood: Well, that's why I didn't say anything.
Fiorello: Can you read it?
Driftwood: (Driftwood struggles to read the fine print) I can read but I can't see it. I don't seem to have it in focus here. If my arms were a little longer, I could read it. You haven't got a baboon in your pocket, have ya? Here, here, here we are. Now I've got it. Now pay particular attention to this first clause because it's most important. It says the, uh, "The party of the first part shall be known in this contract as the party of the first part." How do you like that? That's pretty neat, eh?...
Fiorello: No, it's no good.
Driftwood: What's the matter with it?
Fiorello: I dunno. Let's hear it again.
Driftwood: It says the, uh, "The party of the first part shall be known in this contract as the party of the first part."
Fiorello: (pausing) That sounds a little better this time.
Driftwood: Well, it grows on ya. Would you like to hear it once more?
Fiorello: Uh, just the first part.
Driftwood: Whaddaya mean? The...the party of the first part?
Fiorello: No, the first part of the party of the first part.
Driftwood: All right. It says the, uh, "The first part of the party of the first part shall be known in this contract as the first part of the party of the first part shall be known in this contract" - Look, why should we quarrel about a thing like this? We'll take it right out, eh?
Fiorello: Yeah, ha, it's-a too long, anyhow. (They both tear off the tops of their contracts.) Now, what do we got left?
Driftwood: Well, I got about a foot and a half. Now, it says, uh, "The party of the second part shall be known in this contract as the party of the second part."
Fiorello: Well, I don't know about that...
Driftwood: Now what's the matter?
Fiorello: I no like-a the second party, either.
Driftwood: Well, you shoulda come to the first party. We didn't get home 'til around four in the morning...I was blind for three days!
Fiorello: Hey, look, why can't-a the first part of the second party be the second part of the first party? Then-a you got something.
Driftwood: Well, look, uh, rather than go through all that again, whaddaya say?
Fiorello: Fine. (They rip out a second part of the contract.)
Driftwood: Now, uh, now I've got something you're bound to like. You'll be crazy about it.
Fiorello: No, I don't like it.
Driftwood: You don't like what?
Fiorello: Whatever it is. I don't like it.
Driftwood: Well, don't let's break up an old friendship over a thing like that. Ready?...
Fiorello: OK. (Another part is torn off.) Now the next part, I don't think you're gonna like.
Driftwood: Well, your word's good enough for me. (They rip out another part.) Now then, is my word good enough for you?
Fiorello: I should say not.
Driftwood: Well, that takes out two more clauses. (They rip out two more parts.) Now, "The party of the eighth part..."
Fiorello: No, that's-a no good. (Tearing.) No.
Driftwood: "The party of the ninth part..."
Fiorello: No, that's-a no good too. (Tearing again with very little remaining, only skinny, thin slivers of paper) Hey, how is it my contract is skinnier than yours?
Driftwood: Well, I don't know. You musta been out on a tear last night. But anyhow we're all set now, aren't we?
Fiorello: Oh sure.
Driftwood: (offering his pen to Fiorello to sign the contract) Now just, uh, just you put your name right down there and then the deal is, is, uh, legal.
Fiorello: I forgot to tell you. I can't write.
Driftwood: (unperturbed) Well, that's all right, there's no ink in the pen anyhow. But listen, it's a contract, isn't it?
Fiorello: Oh sure.
Driftwood: We got a contract...
Fiorello: You bet.
Driftwood: ...no matter how small it is.
Fiorello: Hey, wait, wait. What does this say here? This thing here.
Driftwood: Oh, that? Oh, that's the usual clause. That's in every contract. That just says uh, it says uh, "If any of the parties participating in this contract is shown not to be in their right mind, the entire agreement is automatically nullified."
Fiorello: Well, I dunno.
Driftwood: It's all right, that's, that's in every contract. That's, that's what they call a 'sanity clause.'
Fiorello: Ha, Ha, Ha. Ha. Ha. You can't fool me. There ain't no Sanity Clause!
Driftwood: Well, you win the white carnation.
Fiorello: I give this to the cows.

[Cronos]

I think I may have posted it in a Tabular format:

Subfamily	Group	Subgroup	Languages and Principal Dialects
Anatolian			Hieroglypic Hittite*, Hittite (Kanesian)*, Luwian*, Lycian*, Lydian*, Palaic*
Baltic			Latvian (Lettish), Lithuanian, Old Prussian*
Celtic	Brythonic		Breton, Cornish*, Welsh
Celtic	Continental		Gaulish*
Celtic	Goidelic or Gaelic		Irish (Irish Gaelic), Manx*, Scottish Gaelic
Germanic	East Germanic		Burgundian*, Gothic*, Vandalic*
Germanic	North Germanic		Old Norse* (see Norse): Danish, Faeroese, Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish
Germanic	West Germanic (see Grimm's law)	High German	German, Yiddish
Germanic	West Germanic (see Grimm's law)	Low German	Afrikaans, Dutch, English, Flemish, Frisian, Plattdeutsch (see German language)
Greek			Aeolic*, Arcadian*, Attic*, Byzantine Greek*, Cyprian*, Doric*, Ionic*, KoinE*, Modern Greek
Indo-Iranian	Dardic or Pisacha		Kafiri, Kashmiri, Khowar, Kohistani, Romany (Gypsy), Shina
Indo-Iranian	Indic or Indo-Aryan		Pali*, Prakrit*, Sanskrit*, Vedic*
Indo-Iranian	Indic or Indo-Aryan	Central Indic	Hindi, Hindustani, Urdu
Indo-Iranian	Indic or Indo-Aryan	East Indic	Assamese, Bengali, Bihari, Oriya
Indo-Iranian	Indic or Indo-Aryan	Northwest Indic	Punjabi, Sindhi
Indo-Iranian	Indic or Indo-Aryan	Pahari	Central Pahari, Eastern Pahari (Nepali), Western Pahari
Indo-Iranian	Indic or Indo-Aryan	South Indic	Marathi (including major dialect Konkani), Singhalese (Sinhalese)
Indo-Iranian	Indic or Indo-Aryan	West Indic	Bhili, Gujarati, Rajasthani (many dialects)
Indo-Iranian	Iranian		Avestan*, Old Persian*
Indo-Iranian	Iranian	East Iranian	Baluchi, Khwarazmian*, Ossetic, Pamir dialects, Pushtu (Afghan), Saka (Khotanese)*, Sogdian*, Yaghnobi
Indo-Iranian	Iranian	West Iranian	Kurdish, Pahlavi (Middle Persian)*, Parthian*, Persian (Farsi), Tajiki
Italic	(Non-Romance)		Faliscan*, Latin, Oscan*, Umbrian*
Italic	Romance or Romanic	Eastern Romance	Italian, Rhaeto-Romanic, Romanian, Sardinian
Italic	Romance or Romanic	Western Romance	Catalan, French, Ladino, Portuguese, Provençal, Spanish
Slavic or Slavonic	East Slavic		Belorussian (White Russian), Russian, Ukrainian
Slavic or Slavonic	South Slavic		Bulgarian, Church Slavonic*, Macedonian, Serbo-Croatian, Slovenian
Slavic or Slavonic	West Slavic		Czech, Kashubian, Lusatian (Sorbian or Wendish), Polabian*, Polish, Slovak
Thraco-Illyrian			Albanian, Illyrian*, Thracian*
Thraco-Phrygian			Armenian, Grabar (Classical Armenian)*, Phrygian*
Tokharian (W China)			Tokharian A (Agnean)*, Tokharian B (Kuchean)*

[RightWhale]

Latin's major pure contribution to English is suffices, often through French.

[No_Outcome_But_Victory]

Here's a handy chart that might help:

Let's watch a the Latin noun puella (girl) as it inflects through its different cases:

SINGULAR		APPROXIMATE ENGLISH TRANSLATION
NOMINATIVE	puella	girl
GENITIVE	puellae	of the girl
DATIVE	puellae	to/for the girl
ACCUSATIVE	puellam	girl
ABLATIVE	puella	by/with the girl
VOCATIVE	puella	girl
PLURAL
NOMINATIVE	puellae	girls
GENITIVE	puellarum	of the girls
DATIVE	puellis	to/for the girls
ACCUSATIVE	puellas	girls
ABLATIVE	puellis	by/with the girls
VOCATIVE	puellae	girls

[No_Outcome_But_Victory]

I am not very clear on it all yet either, since I am just learning myself at age 35. I just wanted to post some helpful stuff in case someone was interested like a homeschooler parent.