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Ex-rebel Leader Elected Kosovo PM
BBC World News ^ | 12-03-04 | BBC

Posted on 12/03/2004 5:52:57 PM PST by followerofchrist

A former rebel commander who has been questioned by United Nations war crimes investigators has been elected prime minister by Kosovo's parliament. Ramush Haradinaj, an ethnic Albanian who led Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) units, won by a vote of 72 to three.

The decision is expected to anger the Serbian government, which wants him to be indicted for war crimes.

Mr Haradinaj has twice been questioned over his role in the 1998-1999 rebel insurgency against Serb rule.

It is alleged that KLA units under Mr Haradinaj's command murdered moderate Albanians and Serbs living in Kosovo, which is now under international supervision.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: balkans; elections; kla; kosovo; serbia; terrorist; uck
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One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. I followed this war, and this man is a terrorist. Why do news orgs call terrorists "rebels?"
1 posted on 12/03/2004 5:52:57 PM PST by followerofchrist
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To: followerofchrist

This rebel is just another beautiful piece of Madaleine Albrights "Multi-ethnic Kosovo", which happens to be 95% Albanian.

Another one of "Clinton's Legacy".


2 posted on 12/03/2004 6:05:07 PM PST by wrathof59 (semper ubi sub ubi)
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To: followerofchrist
Del Ponte: Investigation of KLA leadership to conclude next week (Koha) On December 3d, Koha Ditore [Kosovo newspaper] carries an interview that ICTY chief prosecutor Carla del Ponte gave to Belgian newspaper ‘Le Soir’:

"According to Del Ponte, by the end of December the ICTY will conclude investigations of war crimes in the former Yugoslavia by filing 6 indictments against 8 or 10 individuals, including one against the KLA leadership that will be completed next week".

This may be resolved sooner, rather than later.

3 posted on 12/03/2004 7:05:12 PM PST by mark502inf
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To: followerofchrist

"The announcement coincides with media reports that Mr. Haradinaj may soon be indicted by the United Nations War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague for alleged atrocities in the 1998-99 war against Serb forces. He was interrogated by U.N. court investigators for several days last week. Serbia's President Boris Tadic was quoted by local media as saying that the prime ministerial appointment is therefore "absolutely unacceptable and could destabilize the whole region."

Western diplomats who spoke to reporters seem to agree. They say the expected appointment of Mr. Haradinaj could overshadow final status talks on the future of Kosovo, which were scheduled to begin next year under international supervision."

http://voanews.com/english/War-Crimes-Suspect-Set-to-Become-Kosovo-Prime-Minister.cfm


4 posted on 12/03/2004 9:18:20 PM PST by endthematrix ("Hey, it didn't hit a bone, Colonel. Do you think I can go back?" - U.S. Marine)
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To: followerofchrist
Who is Ramush Haradinaj?

Ramush Haradinaj, born on July 3, 1968 in the village of Glodjane, municipality of Decani, is not only a criminal but a terrorist and perpetrator of war crimes!

Terrorism and crimes of Ramush Haradinaj

Namely, in 1996, under the watchful eye of Albanian officers, Haradinaj completed terrorist training and upon completion took part in the opening of logistical bases for terrorists in the cities of Kuks and Tropoi in Albania. From these bases he and a group of trustworthy associates continuously injected weapons into Kosovo and Metohija.

In mid-1997 he illegally entered the country [the Federal Republic of [Yugoslavia] and together with his brothers, Daut and Skeljzen, organized terrorist attacks on police departments in the villages of Rznic, municipality of Decani, and Ponosevac, municipality of Djakovica, as well as against refugee camps in Junik and Babalac. In the beginning of 1998 he formed a terrorist group in Glodjane which according to his orders conducted ambushes and harrassment of Serbs and Albanians loyal to the Republic of Serbia. In March 1998 this group carried out an attack on a police patrol in the village of Glodjane and on that occasion killed policeman Miodrag Otovic.

In April of the same year Haradinaj established the Metohija headquarters of the terrorist Kosovo Liberation Army and a special unit called the Black Eagles, promoting Idriz Balaj aka Toger as its commander. Under the leadership of Ramush Haradinaj, the Black Eagles kidnapped and brutally murdered approximately forty Serbian civilians, including Slobodan Radojevic, Milos and Milica Radunovic, Darinka Kovac, Novica Vujsic, Zdravko Radunovic. Some of the bodies were recovered from Lake Radonjic (Radonjicko Jezero) and from water wells in the villages of the muncipality of Decani.

Crimes against compatriots

Terrorists under the command of Ramush Haradinaj did not kill only Serbs but also Albanians. Thus the aforementioned commander of the Black Eagles Idriz Balaj Toger killed Agim Ibrahimi, a taxi driver from Djakovica, at the end of 1998. At the end of 1999 the Black Eagles of Ramush Haradinaj abducted Vesel Mursij and four other ethnic Albanians who were thereafter kept imprisoned in the Dukadjini building in Pec. Vesel Murisi managed to escape and the other four men were killed. Their bodies were thrown into the Beli Drim River. Dzafer Djuka, a political official from Pec, was among the victims.

That the terrorists under Ramush Haradinaj's command killed and abused Albanian civilians, too, was proven in a trial conducted against Ramush Haradinaj's brother, Daut, who has already been sentenced by the UNMIK judiciary for crimes committed against Albanians in June 1999 and is currently serving a prison term. Since we know that Daut was the deputy of his brother Ramush in the Metohija headquarters of the terrorist KLA, if we follow the principle of command responsibility the line leads directly to Ramush Haradinaj. Unfortunately, the principle of command responsibility has not been respected in this instance, i.e. the international community has once again implemented its double standards, leaving Ramush Haradinaj untouched by justice.

Organizer of ethnic cleansing

Ramush Haradinaj is the organizer of ethnic cleansing of Serbs and other non-Albanians from the areas of Pec, Decani and Djakovica. The main perpetrators of these activities were members of the Black Eagles under the commander of Toger. For example, in order to intimidate the Serbs and destroy signs of Serb life and history on the territory of Metohija, the Black Eagles torched the Serbian Orthodox church in the village of Donji Ratis.

Ramush Haradinaj organized the murder of Zahir Zemaj

Haradinaj described his terrorist activities in an autobiographical book in which he of course hides the killing of Serbian civilians and his compatriots. He has gone so far as to organize, in June 2003, the murder of Tahir Zemaj who testified regarding his crimes before investigators of the Hague tribunal. The murder of Tahir Zemaj on January 4, 2004 on Ramush Haradinaj's orders was carried out by the Elsani brothers - Agim, Avni, Cerim, Adem and Ahmet - together with Sali Lajic and Florim Ejupi aka Mazul and Luli.

However, evidence against Haradinaj for his crimes did not disappear with the murder of Zemaj. It is in the possession of the Republic of Serbia, which is currently conducting a case against Haradinaj before the district court in Pristina, presently located in Nis, for terrorist activities, murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Evidence has also been provided to the Hague tribunal which has so far failed to issue an indictment against this proven criminal.

Organization and financing of terrorist activities in south central Serbia and the Republic of Macedonia


Haradinaj continued to conduct terrorist activities even after the arrival of itnernational forces in Kosovo and Metohija and is deeply involved in Albanian terrorist activities in south central Serbia. Thus, for example, Malic Ndrecaj was sent on his orders to the district of Vitina to organize the terrorist Albanian National Army. Today Haradinaj is also especially active in acquisition of weapons and secret training of Albanian terrorists from south central Serbia which is being conducted in the villages of Kosovo and Redhook near the administrative line.

Haradinaj is also involved in the operations of Albanian terrorists in the Republic of Macedonia and providing financial support to Nazim Haradinaj, who provided weapons for the Albanian terrorists in Macedonia. Following the orders of Ramush Haradinaj, until the moment of his arrest by Kfor in July 2002, his brother Daut was directly involved in organizing the terrorist Albanian Liberation Army and participated in clashes with security forces of the Republic of Macedonia.

Ramush Haradinaj acquires the financial means for terrorism through criminalactivities.

Murder and intimidation of political opponents

Ramush Haradinaj does not flinch from murdering his political opponents. Thus the Eslani brothers together with the notorious Toger followed his order on January 17, 2002 and liquidated DSK deputy Ismajl Haradnaj and attempted the murder of Ramiz and Sadik Murici from Pec, both DSK supporters. As well, the Elsani borthers in 2002 following Haradinaj's order liquidated his former bodyguard Avni Elezaj, who was supposed to testify regarding Haradinaj's conflict with the Musaj family and Tahir Zemaj.

Under the patronage (command) of the Haradinaj brothers, prison camps (detention centers) were formed which functioned from 1997-2003 in the following locations: Likovac, Orlate, Malisevska Banja, Jablanica, Smonica, Ozrim, Glamocer, Rakoc, and Kodralija. As an epilogue to this, left behind them were mass graves in the following locations: Brekovac, Ljubizda, Pec NN cemetery, Piskote, Radonjicko Jezero, Goden, Rakoc, etc.

It is estimated that the number of their victims (of all nationalities) may exceed three hundred people, largely civilians.

It is estimated that Ramush Haradinaj is directly responsible for the abduction of over four hundred people (1998-2002) of all nationalities.

It is estimated that three groups for stalking and liquidation under his direct command are comprised of about 30 people specially trained for this type of task. The punishment for disloyalty or disobedience of members of the Kosovo Police Service or Kosovo Protection Corps is death and his groups are responsible for multiple murders of Albanian members of the KPS and translators.

Threats and intimidation of members of UNMIK (political and police organizations) as well as their "lobbying" (bribery) also fall under the domain of the work of Haradinaj's groups. All Albanian leaders in the Kosovo Police Service must obey Haradinaj. He is the logistical mastermind behind all Albanian National Army operations and an active participant in its organization and planning. His men have been appointed municipal mayors and, paradoxically, are also members of negotiating groups for displaced persons from Kosovo and Metohija (giving them access to Serbian and UNMIK plans).

In districts under his direct control, he has the most contact with members of Italian Kfor and also controls the entire UNMIK judicial system in Pec. He is behind attacks on Serb returnee villages near Klina (Bicha). His groups is also responsible for the hushed up murder of three members of UNMIK police in the village of Citak in 2003. Haradinaj also has the most developed and organized operative intelligence network in Kosovo, which also covers zones of interest in central Serbia and throughout the territory of Montenegro. His intelligence network also supports the increasingly strong illegal network of associates and sympathizers of the Party of Democratic Action (based in Pec with local branches in Rozaj, Plav and in the Sandzak.

Al Q'aida connection

As far as Ramush Haradinaj himself is concerned, it is well to keep in mind a fact presented before the U.S. Congress on December 13, 2000 by Ralph Machek, the deputy director of the Criminal Intelligence Administration of Interpol - that Muhamed al Zavahiri, the brother of Dr. Ajman Zavahiri, the leader of the terrorist organization Egyptian Jihad and ideologue of al-Q'aida, commanded an elite unit of the terrorist KLA during the time of the conflict in Kosovo and Metohija. What Machek failed to mention was that this unit was a part of the military policy of the terrorist KLA for the region of Metohija under the command of Daut Haradinaj, while the commander of all units of the terrorist KLA for the region of Metohija was Ramush Haradinaj.

Even after the arrival of international forces in Kosovo and Metohija the Haradinaj brothers continued to nurture their connections with Islamic terrorists. In October 2001 on orders of Ramush Haradinaj his brother Daut visited Sofia where he met with the aforementioned Muhamed al Zavahiriji and discussed further tactics and activities by Islamic terrorists in Kosovo and Metohija and the Republic of Macedonia.

It is not known whether al-Q'aida continues to count on the further services of the Haradinaj clan, first and foremost, on Ramush Haradinaj, a proven champion of the terrorist ideology of Islamic extremists.

Link
5 posted on 12/04/2004 9:21:02 AM PST by dj_animal_2000
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To: dj_animal_2000; Wraith; wonders; joan; Hoplite; GeraldP; DTA; Balkans
decent summary of Ramush'es activities but misses a few key points

1) Ramush'es KLA OZ was one of the two (out of 7) most active units in the KLA. The other was the Llap OZ commanded by Rustem Mustafa (aka Remi). Remi's entire staff has been convicted by Kfor/UNMIk for a systemic murder campaign against their fellow Albanians in 1998 & 1999. At the time, Clintonistas attributed these deaths to the sinister 'serbs'. Post-War investigation determined that the KLA did the deeds

2) Ramush is very likely guilty of a infamous crime: throwing a hand grenade at a group of teenagers killing 6..........their crime drinking Fantas in mixed (ie Serbs & Albanians together) company.

3) I personaly suspect Ramush to be guilty of murdering KLA Commander Drini in July 1999. Drini had control of KLA smuggling routes in the adjacant OZ.

4) Ramush also is very likely to have been responsible for the mass exodous of wealthy Albanians from Pec during Clinton's bombing campaign. He hated those Albanian shopkeepers and merchants who made money. One of his units evidently shot 12 Albanians just outside of Pec circa March 28th for not moving quick enough.

5) Ramush is a favorite of Joe DioGuardia, John McCain, and the pro-KLA band in Congress. He was feted a few years ago by Congress as the 'next president of KosovA'. A number of Freepers protested ( thanks Gael for organizing)and the Ramush fete didn't get much airtime.

Since the KLA is pretty much all wasting away in Kfor prisons, Ramush is just about the only one left who could actually hold office. The remaining KLA have far worse records.

6 posted on 12/04/2004 4:55:57 PM PST by vooch
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To: Honorary Serb
Here is what Harvard University has become, the hubs of Islamic terror network.

"President of the Alliance for the Future of Kosovo Mr. Ramush Haradinaj, Speaker of the Parliament Dr. Nexhat Daci, President Ibrahim Rugova, President of the Democratic Party of Kosovo Mr. Hashim Thaqi and Prime Minister Bajram Rexhepi at the Project's Crafting Strategies for Peace initiative in December 2003"

It is sickening.

7 posted on 12/04/2004 7:55:55 PM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: DTA; Wraith

Ramush - you can dress him up in a fine suit, but he stills looks like a thug


8 posted on 12/06/2004 5:06:26 AM PST by ehoxha
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To: All
New Kosovo Prime Minister committed numerous crimes

An underage girl beaten and raped by Haradinaj

Ramush Haradinaj, newly elected Kosovo Prime Minister ordered and personally committed killings, tortures and rapes of non-Albanian civilians in the territory of Djakovica during withdrawal of Serbian Army and Police from Kosovo and Metohija in 1999. Because of all these crimes, the War Crimes Council of the District Court in Belgrade ordered on August 20, 2004 investigation against Haradinaj and another six members of Kosovo Liberation Army /KLA/ for war crimes against civil population.

According to documents that 'Blic' got, former commander of KLA HQ for Metohija founded a prison in the cellars of Pastrik Hotel. There, non-Albanian civilians were tortured, raped and then taken to the bank of Ernik River and shot dead. That happened at the place called ' Gropa Coftinave'.

On June 12, 1999 at Haradinaj's order, Arben Skrupi, Anton Lekaj, Besim Bestrazimi, Saban Azemi and Hode Hekuran seized Gypsies that attended a wedding ceremony and took them to Pastrik. They objected the Gypsies for having addressed them in Serbian Language. A day later, Serb Rade Gagovic was also taken into prison.

Haradinaj who personally questioned the captives, also gave orders for their torture. On June 12 in a hotel room of Pastrik and underage girl G.T. was brutally beaten and raped by Haradinaj. After that, over two days, other KLA members were constantly raping the girl. Sofija Tafa was also permanently beaten and raped. At night between June 13 and 14 Arben Krupi and Anton Lekaj raped and beaten a man called Bedri Salja. The same night Skupi cut off the ear of Rade Gagovic and then put it in the mouth of Redi Salja forcing him to eat the ear up. There were many other cases of torture.

On June 15 Arben Skupi told Badri Salja, Redja Salja, Bajram Krasnici, Zvezdan Ljusaj and Rade Gagovic that at the order of Ramush Haradinaj they would be shot.

Lekaj, Bestrezimi, Azemi and Uksinaj took the victims by a car to a place called 'Gropa Coftinave' and there shot them dead. Only one, Bedri Salja, managed to escape.

On October 1, 2004 War Crimes Council of the District Court in Belgrade ruled one-month detention for that crime. Since, according to police report, they are not in the territory of Serbia and Montenegro, the Council issued a wanted list for these individuals the same day.

Link

--------------------------

UNMIK rejected request by Serbia Government

UNMIK yesterday rejected request by the officials in Belgrade to cancel election of Ramush Haradinja for Kosovo Prime Minister. The explanation was that UNMIK 'does not have competence for something like that'.

UNMIK's spokesman Geoff Belly said that 'election of Haradinaj is a legitimate will of deputies in Kosovo Parliament and that UNMIK is willing to respect democratic principles and request implementation of standards for Kosovo only'.

-----------------------

Rejecting request by Serbia Government to cancel election of Ramush Haradinaj, UNMIK spit in the face of justice, UN /whose mandate UNMIK has/ and public opinion. In the first place he spit in the face of the underage girl for whose rape the newly elected Prime Minister of Serbia southern province is suspected and finally in the face of the families whose members were killed at the hand or order of Ramush Haradinaj.

Thus, thanks to hypocrisy of the international community, whose spokesman claims that Haradinaj 'was elected thanks to the will of deputies in legitimate Kosovo Parliament and in line with democratic procedure', a hand of a criminal is going to sign laws in Europe of the 21st century. Formally speaking the spokesman is right, but Mussolini, Hitler or Goebels were also elected in line with democratic procedures in force. The difference is that they committed the crimes after their elections, while Haradinaj has been on wanted list as a criminal for years.

This act abolishes crimes against civil population and promotes those who committed those crimes into pioneers of sick 'Kosovo democracy' not known in modern history. Is this the last humiliation that protectors in Kosovo and Metohija have thrown in Serbia's face indirectly saying that that state is only needed as the other party in the final act of 'democratic circus' called 'Talks about the future of Kosovo'? Will Serbia have to negotiate about its own territory with a man who tortured, raped, killed…?

There are as many questions as crimes that former commander of KLA HQ for Metohija is being charged with. And that list is not short.

Haradinaj himself seems to be mocking at us all from his throne of a Prime Minister. He does not say that he is not guilty. He says that the Hague Tribunal does not have any proofs against him.

Obviously Justice in Kosovo has not tied the eyes only, but the hands as well.

9 posted on 12/06/2004 8:51:45 AM PST by dj_animal_2000
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To: dj_animal_2000

This piece of "dung" is who the "ethnic" (as if Serbs aren't) Albanians elected. I read accounts of these people lying and harboring drug dealers and terrorists long ago. I didn't believe the rank and file Albanian would do such a thing. Then I read that they have almost twice the number of children in Kosovo that they do in Albania so that they could breed the Serbs out. Could this be true? Could almost an entire population be scoundrels?


10 posted on 12/06/2004 5:34:27 PM PST by followerofchrist
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To: followerofchrist
the "ethnic" (as if Serbs aren't) Albanians

You're making something out of nothing. After the Balkan Wars the boundaries of Albania were set with about half the Albanians living outside them in what is now Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia, and Greece. The term "ethnic Albanian" came into use to describe those of Albanian ethnicity who were not citizens of Albania proper; something like how Serb & Serbian are used.

they have almost twice the number of children in Kosovo that they do in Albania so that they could breed the Serbs out...Could almost an entire population be scoundrels?

Yep, that's got to be it. And it explains why there are no Serbs in Asia, Africa, and Latin America where poor, rural farming families with low female education levels have very high birth rates. They have out-bred the Serbs.

11 posted on 12/07/2004 3:35:13 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf; followerofchrist
Mark,

You failed to check that when Albania was formed for the first time in history in 1912, Shiptars (a.k.a. Albanians) were barely 50% of population. The rest were Serbs, Montenegrins, Greeks, Turks and Tzintzars. In 92 years since then Shqiptars have assimilated,KILLED and outbred the rest. According to CIA FACTBOOK

Albanian 95%, Greek 3%, other 2% (Vlach, Roma (Gypsy), Serb, Macedonian, and Bulgarian) (1989 est.) note: in 1989, other estimates of the Greek population ranged from 1% (official Albanian statistics) to 12% (from a Greek organization)

So, your opionion is either ignorant one (you did not know that it was not only Shqiptars who were left outside of national borders) or racist one (you care only for Shqiptars to the point of condoning the genocide they commited in Albania)

Shqiptar claims of being left out of the borders are comparable to MENENDEZ BORTHERS claim of being orphans!

12 posted on 12/07/2004 4:35:32 AM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: followerofchrist; mark502inf; Honorary Serb
The story of the creation of Albania is interesting. The first constitution was charted by a Turk. The first country to diplomatically recognize Albania was Serbia.

Serbia had no ill intentions toward the new neighbor, especially having in mind large number of Serbs who were left behind in Albania. Yes, sowe Shqip were left outside of Albanian border, but also Serbs, Greeks were left in Albania. This tiny detail is hidden by Albanian extremist in their rabid nationalistic tantrum.

When speaking to the outside world, Albanians call their country Albania and call themselves Albanians. Yet, when speaking about themselves and their country in their own language, they call country Shqipnia and themselves Shqip.

Sounds odd? It gets even more interesting with Turkish name. Turks call Shqip ARNAVUT and country ARNAVUTLUK. Loosely translated it means: "Unreturned". This si is unerasable mark where Shqip came from -when Turks settled in the Balkans, they found ARNAVUT, people they already knew.

Sadly, the best product of Albania is falsification of history (i.e. claim of Shqip being descendants of Illyrians) supported by the brazen theft of historical heritage of Serb and Hellenic people.

13 posted on 12/07/2004 7:08:18 AM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: followerofchrist; mark502inf; Honorary Serb
The story of the creation of Albania is interesting. The first constitution was charted by a Turk. The first country to diplomatically recognize Albania was Serbia.

Serbia had no ill intentions toward the new neighbor, especially having in mind large number of Serbs who were left behind in Albania. Yes, sowe Shqip were left outside of Albanian border, but also Serbs, Greeks were left in Albania. This tiny detail is hidden by Albanian extremist in their rabid nationalistic tantrum.

When speaking to the outside world, Albanians call their country Albania and call themselves Albanians. Yet, when speaking about themselves and their country in their own language, they call country Shqipnia and themselves Shqip.

Sounds odd? It gets even more interesting with Turkish name. Turks call Shqip ARNAVUT and country ARNAVUTLUK. Loosely translated it means: "Unreturned". This si is unerasable mark where Shqip came from -when Turks settled in the Balkans, they found ARNAVUT, people they already knew.

Sadly, the best product of Albania is falsification of history (i.e. claim of Shqip being descendants of Illyrians) supported by the brazen theft of historical heritage of Serb and Hellenic people.

14 posted on 12/07/2004 7:08:41 AM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: DTA
That's INSANE. I knew the indo-Albanians and the indo-Serbs had quite alot of tribal warfare during the Ottoman days. I assumed the population explosion was due to Serbian westernization (low birth rate) and Muslim fecundity. The Shqiptars would be an interesting case study. They are one of the few European groups who are not below replacement fertility. It is interesting that Clinton chose to paint them as victims at the expense of Christian Serbs to show the Muslim world that they don't only bomb Muslims. We were on the wrong side of that war.
15 posted on 12/07/2004 9:16:06 AM PST by followerofchrist
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To: DTA

Ah! I thought I did my research well during Clinton's ethnic cleansing campaign. I thought the Illyrians were Albanians.


16 posted on 12/07/2004 9:26:33 AM PST by followerofchrist
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To: followerofchrist
>>>>>Ah! I thought I did my research well during Clinton's ethnic cleansing campaign. I thought the Illyrians were Albanians.<<<<

According to Albanians even Alexander the Great was an Albanian :-)

All this childish attempts would be silly if not the engine of ruthless land grab, destruction of cultural heritage and take no prisoners approach to the rightful owners.

The brazenless of Albanian "historiography" can be best seen in the case of Georg Castriota later known as Iskander Bey or SKenderbeg.

Skenderbeg was a Serb, born of Serb father (Ivan) and Serb mother (Voisava). Yet, Albanian "historiography" calls Skenderbeg Albanian, and George's father, a Serb "Albanian nobleman" although at that time there was no Albania nor they were Shqip.

It must be horrible existence to learn that for 1000 years the only Shqip contribution to the Balkans was destruction.

When one has no heroues of his own, he has to steal them from others.

17 posted on 12/07/2004 10:04:52 AM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: DTA

>>>Sounds odd? It gets even more interesting with Turkish name. Turks call Shqip ARNAVUT and country ARNAVUTLUK. Loosely translated it means: "Unreturned". This si is unerasable mark where Shqip came from -when Turks settled in the Balkans, they found ARNAVUT, people they already knew.

The term "Arnavut" is the Turkization of the Greek term "Arvanite", which is in turn nothing but the Greek version of the Albanian name in the time period "Arberia". The term Shqiptar is in fact a relatively new term and characteristic only of the Albanians within the territories that make up "ethnic Albania". i.e. Albania, Western Macedonia, Southern Montenegro, and Kosov@.

Albanian diaspora that has had a significant isolation from these territories, retain the medieval name in some variation. The Albanians that emigrated to Italy in the 15th century call themselves Arbresh, Albanians that fled deep inside the borders of Greece after Dusan's rampage in Albania, retain the name Arvanites though they have developed a Greek identity. And the Albanians of Croatia, are known as Arbanasi.

Your half-a**ed attempt at a coherent explaining away of Albanian history is weak and shows you have no interest in history, but only in spreading disinformation and prejudice.


18 posted on 12/07/2004 2:14:28 PM PST by GeraldP (Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.)
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To: DTA

>>>Skenderbeg was a Serb, born of Serb father (Ivan) and Serb mother (Voisava). Yet, Albanian "historiography" calls Skenderbeg Albanian, and George's father, a Serb "Albanian nobleman" although at that time there was no Albania nor they were Shqip.

As I mentioned before, Shqip is a new name for the Albanian language. Read Skenderbeg's own words:

Letter from Skanderbeg to the Prince of Taranto:

ÒGiorgio, gentleman of Albania, to Giovanni Antonio, Prince of Taranto, greeting.

Having made a truce with the enemy of my religion I have not wanted that my friend remain (fraudato) of my aid. (Spesse?) times, Alfonso, his father, invited my help while I waged war against the Turks. Therefore I would be very ungrateful if I had not resisted (lÕistesso?) service to his son. I remember what your king did because now (non deve vedere succedergli?) this who is his son? You adored his father, and why now do you try to throw out his son? Where did this power come from? Who has the power to set up the King of Sicily, you or the Roman Pontiff?

I came to aid Ferrante, son of the king and seat of the Apostolica. I came opposing your unfaithfulness and innumerable great betrayals in this kingdom. (NeÕ?) will you ever be unpunished for your perjury. This is the reason for my war against you. I merit this no less than I merited making war against the Turks, nor are you less Turk than them. (ImperoccheÕ vi sono alcuni?) that guide you in a straight line not to be of some sect. You my opponents the French and the names of those people, and those for the religion wage grand war.

I do not want to dispute ancient matters with you, matters that perhaps were much less than what was told about them. Certainly in our times the Aragonese armadas have often coursed the Aegean Sea, have plundered the Turkish coasts, have (riportata?) the prey of the enemies; and even today the Aragonese armies defend Troja from the jaws of the enemy. Why do I remember the old things and leave the new parts? If they change the family costumes and the plowmen of the kingdom, and the kings of the plowmen return? (NeÕ troverai nobilitaÕ piuÕ antica della virtuÕ.)

Nor can I deny that you are not with the obnoxious French nation, (imperoccheÕ) you being mainly in aid of King Alfonso, you hunted the French of this kingdom. I do not know now what new virtue shines in this. Perhaps it is some new star that you have now seen among the French?

Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. My elders were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies.

I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?

In the past the Albanese have (fatto?) experience if the Pugilese were armed; (neÕ) I would again find some who would have been able to aspired to my nature. I have well noted from the back how many of your soldiers are well armed but have never been able to see their helmets or (tanpoco?) the face except those that have become prisoners. (NeÕ?) I seek your house (Bastandomi?) my own. Besides, it is well known that you often would have shot your neighbors for their possessions, as now you would force out the king of your house and your kingdom.

(Che se?) If I fall in the difficult task I have embarked on I will be buried as (mi vai?) wishing in your letter, will bring back my soul as a reward from the Chancellor of the universe, of God. Not only will I have perfected my intention, but also I will have planned and attempted some distinguished deed.

Good bye....Ó

http://members.aol.com/rhvara/con5.htm


19 posted on 12/07/2004 2:18:15 PM PST by GeraldP (Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.)
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To: followerofchrist

>>>I thought the Illyrians were Albanians.

The Albanians are descendants of the ancient inhabitants of this part of the Balkans, the Illyrians. In a genetic sense, this is largely true of Serbs, Croats, Montenegrins and Bosnians. But in a cultural, linguistic sense it is thought by a large majority of respected historians, that Albanians largely preserved Illyrian customs and language. In fact it is thought that the term pertains to one Illyrian tribe, the Albanoi who is thought to have resisted Romanization due to the rugged nature of the terrain where they lived, somewhere around modern Dibar or Mirdita.
Coincidentally, this is the area given by linguists as the area where the nucleus of the modern Albanian language was located.


20 posted on 12/07/2004 2:25:58 PM PST by GeraldP (Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.)
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