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LIVE THREAD: 4th Circuit San Diego Mayoral Election Hearing
AM 600 KOGO ^ | Dec 3, 2004 | Self

Posted on 12/03/2004 11:05:27 AM PST by newzjunkey

The hearing is just about the start. John Howard's case will be heard by the 4th Circuit to determine if there should be a new election, if Donna Frye's write-in candidacy was invalid and other related issues.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: 4thcircuit; california; caseygwinn; chuckabdelnour; citycharter; countthevotes; courtofappeal; dickmurphy; donnafrye; election2004; electionfraud; johnhoward; johnwitt; mayor; ronroberts; sandiego; stealallthevotes; surferchick; unionmoney; unions
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Please comment on the proceedings. You can listen also on 760 KFMB
1 posted on 12/03/2004 11:05:28 AM PST by newzjunkey
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To: newzjunkey

Plantiff John Howard talking. Charter city can limit write-ins. We don't want a minority mayor (under 50% +1). Never was the intent of the framers of the Charter. Charter is the constitution of the city, state supreme court has upheld that view.


2 posted on 12/03/2004 11:07:36 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: All
I'm no expert, but it sounds like the judge is going to make Little-Enron-by-the-Sea hold another mayoral election and restrict it to just the top two candidates who win in a new primary and no write-in candidates. The present mayor stays in office until that new election is held.

Can everybody say "next stop: appeals court" or "it's time to fire the City Clerk?"

3 posted on 12/03/2004 11:22:38 AM PST by Mister Sophisticate
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To: newzjunkey
Talking about how Charter can be ammended. San Diego Charter never ammended in regard to two candidates and only two candidates. Judge expressing concern about what they're being asked to decide.

New election? Prevent certification? Only the TRO issue? Joking about misprouncing judge's name. Asking the court to go beyond just the TRO issue or abuse of discretion and address the election problem.

Much talking over by idiot reports... Howard saying the court has the authority, says a decision must be made. Court still concerned they may not have authority, may not be able to do this at this juncture. Saying challenge may only come after certification, asking for writ of mandamus because there was a violation of the Charter, asking for a new proper election with the two legal primary "winners"... City's defense is only "document of latches" and says the city caused the problem. Latches (?) says if you sit on your rights, you've given them up. Howard is arguing he did not know what the charter said and the City can't claim latches because they were the cause of the problem, citizens are not on notice, the city officials are on notice and did nothing to comply with the charter. Talking about case the City claims supports latches... case from Hawaii... says this was a different multi-year circumstance.

Question... who would be new mayor until a new election. Says current mayor would stay as per charter. Female judge asking about muni. election code and waiting until after certification. Howard says the court would not be ignoring that code because he's asking for writ because the election itself was invalid.

Says election code itself is a defence against latches claim. Howard arguing the court needs to act because time of the the essence.

Judge asking when voters knew there would be a write-in. Five weeks. Absentee voting began almost immediately after. Why wasn't this filed during that five weeks prior to the election. Is not knowing the charter a reason to be allowed to wait? Asking court to look at Southwest Voter Registration case for a discussion in the decision... it deals with latches. That case said the plantiff had to have known of his right to challenge the write-in process beforehand. Howard says the party doing the wrong should've been the party to protect the platiff's right.

Says if this is allowed to go, city officials will willfully ignore the charter and the city will again claim latches and get away with it when a citizen catches on to the illegality.

City's lawyer comes up now...

4 posted on 12/03/2004 11:26:39 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: newzjunkey
Sounds a lot like NJ.

Didn't I read that write in votes are not permitted in this election?

5 posted on 12/03/2004 11:27:29 AM PST by OldFriend (PRAY FOR MAJ. TAMMY DUCKWORTH)
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To: Mister Sophisticate
I agree the court sounds like it's leaning towards a favorable ruling.

The City is claiming some future court should hold a trial, claims there's overwhelming latches evidence, judge demands to know what other evidence there would be. City talking latches again. Complaining about costs but judge calls him on why the City would say wait even longer. City lawyer says the judge would know they're right if the judge had more time to consider their information. Judge asks if the code in conflict with the charter is invalid... eventually the city lawyer agrees.

Female judge... why did the clerk decide without benefit of legal advice. Claims the case involving a special election to fill a city council seat, involving a would-be candidate possibly excluded by term limits, and said the city clerk at the sole authority to decide who goes on the ballot.

Female judge emphasizes ONLY TWO. City lawyer asked if charter is ambiguous, he's twisting in the wind saying it's not after just arguing it was! Says the city clerk can't arbitrarily decide who to put on the ballot (i.e. a near 3rd place winner).

6 posted on 12/03/2004 11:34:41 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: OldFriend

The city clerk allowed it. The city charter does not. Now we could have an incombent reelected with 2/3rd of the voters having voted for someone else.


7 posted on 12/03/2004 11:35:43 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: newzjunkey

I bet you a lot of people voted for Donna Frye because they thought she was Amber's sister.


8 posted on 12/03/2004 11:37:58 AM PST by Cowboy Bob (Fraud is the lifeblood of the Democratic Party)
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To: newzjunkey
City attorney still arguing it had to have been a pre-election challenge or a post-certification challenge.

Female judge criticizing claims only pre-election challenge was possible. City lawyer saying only post-election discoveries can be challenged. Female judge says the city's view seems to be burden on voter would be determining if the candidate is a legal candidate and have to check up on the city clerk for all candidates.

City claims not knowing FACTS (bribe, candidate living in a car, etc.) rather than not knowing LAW, is the only reason they could challenge after the election has begun. Judge pressing to find out if there's a specific code the city lawyer is depending on for that opinion.

Mayor Murphy's lawyer up now...

9 posted on 12/03/2004 11:41:28 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: Cowboy Bob

I wouldn't be surprised.


10 posted on 12/03/2004 11:42:04 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: newzjunkey
Asking Mayor's lawyer if the court should wait and see what the trial court should do. Mayor's lawyer saying the court would kick it back to the lower court if they decided the judge had screwed up. Asks who would be mayor if it takes six weeks. He agrees with Howard that the Charter says Murphy stays mayor until a successor is certified.

Seems the court is trying to decide to make a ruling or kick it back for a trial.

Mayor's lawyer says there's no "irreparable harm" because certification can be undone. Says they don't care because the mayor, as they see it, won reelection and will continue as mayor.

Whining the city is a mess, so his client has to stay mayor.

11 posted on 12/03/2004 11:47:20 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: Cowboy Bob
I bet you a lot of people voted for Donna Frye because they thought she was Amber's sister.

Have you ever seen a picture of Donna Frye?

12 posted on 12/03/2004 11:47:42 AM PST by Mister Sophisticate
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To: newzjunkey
Again claiming certification would not be a harm because it can be undone.

Says the clerk had no discretion to not allow Frye to run because there's a municipal code in conflict with the charter. Blaming the city attorney and the council for the conflict. Female judge says the city attorney should've sought declaratory relief, the city clerk too and can't fathom how a voter could be held to the knowledge of the city attorney and city clerk.

13 posted on 12/03/2004 11:51:07 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: Mister Sophisticate

Please don't post any pictures of her, I just ate lunch. Talk about falling from the ugly tree, I think she hit every branch twice.


14 posted on 12/03/2004 11:52:48 AM PST by Pylon (R)
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To: Mister Sophisticate; Cowboy Bob

15 posted on 12/03/2004 11:55:15 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: Pylon

Too late. ;)


16 posted on 12/03/2004 11:55:34 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: newzjunkey
City lawyer slandering the plantiff's lawyer. Continues the claim the trial judge should be allowed to have a trial with evidence. Begging them to let the mayor be re-sworn in.

Donna Frye's lawyer is up now.

17 posted on 12/03/2004 11:58:40 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: newzjunkey

Why is she this funny color? She looks dead.


18 posted on 12/03/2004 11:59:37 AM PST by Libertina (We praise You Lord, You have granted America a Christian leader!)
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To: newzjunkey

Asking what's Donna's interest since either way they rule Donna's out because either Murphy's won or she was an illegal candidate.


19 posted on 12/03/2004 12:00:09 PM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: Libertina

Waaaaaaaay too much sun. She's a surfer chick and co-owns a surf shop with her husband.


20 posted on 12/03/2004 12:00:56 PM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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