Republicans warn of party split over immigration

THE WASHINGTON TIMES ^ | 12/03/04 | Stephen Dinan

[gubamyster]

By Stephen Dinan

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

When House Republicans blocked the intelligence overhaul bill two weeks ago, some congressional Republicans say they were showing President Bush he will split the party if he goes ahead with his broader immigration-reform plan.

"It would cause a break in the party that would be extremely unhealthy for the party," said Rep. Tom Tancredo, Colorado Republican and chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus. "I can tell you right now, the feelings are deep. This is not a superficial argument with the president.

"We were all willing to shut up during the campaign. We were not going to attack the president. But the campaign is over with and the gloves are off on this issue," Mr. Tancredo said.

He echoed the sentiments of several Republicans who emerged from a House Republican Conference discussion Nov. 20 on the intelligence bill, which they insist include strict national standards to ensure illegal aliens don't acquire driver's licenses.

[MegaSilver]

You are right on the money. The economic and cultural differences between America/Canada and the rest of the Western Hemisphere are so great that it will never work. Like you said, if Europe, a continent of countries that have much in common are struggling mightily with their Economic Union there is virtually no hope at all that is can be copied here in our hemisphere. And why on earth should it be copied?

And of course, even the various countries of Western Europe all have MAJOR cultural differences and speak numerous languages. Still, the fact that the people all resembled each other fairly well managed to mitigate this fact when multilingual persons traveled across borders. But what's tripping the EU up is the addition of ten new members, most of which are post-Communist countries with still-depressed economies. Prior to this integration, the EU only had to subsidize the pains of a few small nuissance members like Ireland.

Contrast this with NAFTA. When Mexico's (a huge country comprising about 20-25% of the population of NAFTA) peso collapsed in the mid-1990's, Bill Clinton had to shovel billions of dollars in aid down there to keep their economy from completely imploding, because by then our economies were so integrated that our position depended on theirs. And if it was bad in the 1990's, it's worse now, and it'll be worse still if we break down barriers to Brazil, Argentina, etc.

[cassie22]

I hate to tell y'all, but the contractors here prefer Mexicans because they are better workers, not because they are cheaper.



Aw, c'mon now. The money figures into it too and I'm sure much more than you're implying. Call me cynical. :~)

[StoneColdGOP]

I hope all the kool-aid drinking, Bush ass kissing is over and Republicans are REALLY ready to fight against illegal immigration.

The 9/11 bill needs to include the immigration-related reforms. That's the first step.

[snopercod]

Yes, I'm sure money is a factor, too.

The Mexicans around here get $12 per hour for day labor (in cash). The white guys get about the same or less (taxable), if they show up.

I'm not bigoted, but I work in construction and I see what I see.

I was working as an electrician a few years back, and I joked that the boss only hired me because I had a valid drivers license. Later on I realized that was probably true because every other electrician in his employ had lost his due to a DWI. Several of them were fresh out of jail.

Some of these guys would just "disappear" for two weeks without any explanation, and the boss would never say anything.

Having a work ethic, it was amazing to me that they didn't get fired, but hey, I just worked there.

Frankly, I would hire Mexicans over white trash any time.

[brianl703]

I wonder how much of that crap work is permitted and inspected?

[Ron H.]

Inform me if I'm wrong...with the guest-worker proposal wouldn't it: 1. Allow us to TAX the immigrants 2. Help us to keep track of them better.

1. Will the tax receipts that the U.S. Government receives from these low paid immigrant 'guest workers' at least equal or be greater than the offset expense of hosting/caring for the current illegal alien resident and his/her huge family for years to come? The employer gets the best benefit while the tax payer gets stuck with the huge tax bills for taking care of these people so that Bush's campaign cronies get their el cheapo labor.

2. Our police agencies have a hard time just keeping up with criminal citizens and the I.C.E. can't even locate the more than 400,000+ (last number I recall seeing in print around here and growing daily) aliens that have been ordered deported 4 years ago so what makes one think we can keep track of another 10-20 million 'guest workers'?!

It's good to see that at least you're thinking about a solution.

[brianl703]

A few years back I worked in IT (during the height of the .com era) and it was amazing some of the people they were hiring, and more amazing that they never fired any (at least till the .com bomb happened and they had to lay a bunch off).

Wouldn't it be funny if those electricians were the ones who couldn't get a .com job?

You had to be a real screwup to not get a .com job back then!

[ApesForEvolution]

Marker

[ApesForEvolution]

Marker II

[ApesForEvolution]

Marker III

[4.1O dana super trac pak]

-ping-

[snopercod]

You bring up a good point about the economy.

There have been times in my life when employers were scrambling to hire me. Then lately (like for the last ten years), there have been times when they didn't bother to return my calls.

It's pretty easy to tell the difference between a "good economy" and a bad one, regardless of what the media is saying.

P.S. Love your tagline.

[skeeter]

Like I said, maybe it's different where you live.

Its different where I live.

[ApesForEvolution]

Secure the borders and ports, amnesty those illegals here (with vigorous registration and also prosecution of criminals - build work prisons - but NEVER amnesty again), ensure that a Hitlery fascist couldn't abuse Americans at/within the borders and THEN we would have something.

It must be done, like, yesterday...

[cassie22]

The Mexicans around here get $12 per hour for day labor (in cash). The white guys get about the same or less (taxable), if they show up.

Cash payments is a big issue. If contractors aren't paying their portion of payroll taxes because they pay in cash, that means less money to the federal government. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to pay less taxes too but when you consider those employers not paying into the sytem, the federal mandates that require all children get an education regardless of status, federal laws that mandate no one can be turned away from an ER because they don't have medical, those of us, employees and employers who abide by the rules, end up having to pick up the slack. Not exactly a level playing field.

[ApesForEvolution]

Exactly, and that's why Rove has expressly forbidden the good congressman from ever "darkening the halls of the White House again."

>>>

A Rep demanding that we actually take effective action to prevent terrorists and other law-breakers from entering the country is evidently unacceptable to this White House.

<<<

That stance by the Administration causes me to hit the reset button.

It's time now to get a handle on a Mexican POTUS out of control

But, after all, why work for $.13/hour in Nicaragua's interior when you can work for $.50/hour in Mexico's interior - DOH! - you can get FIVE DOLLARS us in the AMERICAN INTERIOR!

I guess we can all choose which laws we can abide in.

Illegal invaders, willing to play 2nd class non-citizens with criminal access to our country are treated BETTER than Americans that love AMERICA!

Freaking ridiculous that we are even having this debate.

Slam the borders, force Mexico to enforce their border with us by all means necessary, secure the ports and have REAL Homeland Security...

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Why would FR split? Bush-bots? I got the impression that the majority of posters here were not for Bush's agenda on immigration.

They are the majority, and a large one. Almost every poll that's been run here shows at least 80%+ of the posters wanting to get tough on illegal immigration.

[snopercod]

Perhaps the difference is not so much between the nationality as the city/country situation.

What I am trying to say is that where I live (rural), people have a different ethic than city folks. We don't lock our homes or our cars. I can park my pickup in a shopping center with thousands of dollars of tools in the bed and not worry about someone taking them.

People are honest and hard-working here, including the Mexicans that choose to live here rather in the cities.

People forget that Mexicans have brains, too. The smart ones choose to live in the red states (or in the "red" portions of California).

[ApesForEvolution]

I'm willing to 'compromise' in an effective way for America...and yet "near-future-now" effective.

If we amnesty *with* effective Border/Port Security, we can *begin* to have Homeland Security.

We've now hit the point of action or no return...