Posted on 12/01/2004 8:25:22 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection
...President Bush and House Speaker Dennis Hastert (search) have both said the idea of a national sales tax deserves a serious look. For many, the idea of a world without the Internal Revenue Service is very seductive.
"We spend about $400 billion a year complying with the tax code. We spend $200 billion a year just filling out IRS paperwork," said Rep. John Linder (search) , R-Ga., who has proposed a bill that would create a national sales tax.
Proponents have spent millions on research and have concluded that a national sales tax can replace the income tax, payroll tax, estate tax and corporate tax. Advocates say the new tax would lower the cost of manufacturing and job creation and attract foreign investments, among other things.
"If we were to get rid of the sales or the income tax and the payroll tax and all compliance costs, we would be so ferociously competitive in a world economy that corporate America would not be competed with unless foreign corporations started building their plants in America," Linder said.
Proponents seek a 23-cent national sales tax on all retail goods, everything from groceries to clothes, cars to electronics. Everyone would pay the same rate, which critics argue is part of the problem.
"If you consume $40,000 a year and you make $50,000 a year, would you feel it is fair if a guy who made a half a million dollars a year but spent $40,000 a year paid the same tax you do? I think you wouldn't feel it's fair," said Buck Chapoton, former assistant treasury secretary.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I could see a whole lot of "new" things suddenly being offered as "used" for some sort of premium to the seller. For example, a car dealer might offer to drive your new car around town for a day or two, add say $2000 on to the "dealer prep" charges, and allow you to purchase the car as "used." To keep something like this from happening, there would need to be some sort of NRST IRS policing force throughout the country. The IRS would not go away, just change job descriptions.
The fairtax is tax INCLUSIVE that's why it's a 30% 'sales tax rate'
The tax is "23% of the gross payment" (including itself)
It doesn't.
I fully understand that the fair tax plan calls for replacing the other taxes with a national sales tax. The reality is that the GOP will not control the White House forever- I doubt it'll control Congress forever either. 16 or 20 years from now, some Democrat will seek to bring back the income tax to pay for who knows what. It wouldn;t be a tough sell- afterall there will have been a 100+ year traditionof the income tax and only a small minority would be hit with it (at first).
Besides, the purpose of taxes is neither to punish nor to redistribute wealth. They exist simply to provide the government with the revenue needed to provide those services that could not be more effectively provided by individuals or private enterprise (i.e. national defense and law enforcement)
If I buy an item in Los Angeles and pay Calif. State and local sales taxes of 8.25% I pay $8.25 taxes on every $100 in sales. Why would the Feds collect tax on the tax? Makes no sense. Go to State of Calif. pdf chart on sales tax of 8.25%. Tax on sales up to $100.06 is $8.25 http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/8-25.pdf
Gee if we have no IRS what will Hillary do to threaten all of her enemies?
If we (Conservatives and the GOP) eliminate the IRS, Hillary nor any RAT will grace the WH for a long, long time...
Anyone that doesn't think the current system isn't 100% about control is a)ignorant or b)intellectually dishonest.
Control the people and to a lesser extent, control the economy...
How much in taxes would they company made if consumers hadn't purchased any products?... The consumer is ultimately paying the taxes for corporations.
Man produces more than he consumes. Politicians and government bureaucrats drain as much of the production into the funding of government as they can get away with.
Government doesn't have to compete in the marketplace . Instead, they use guns, judges and jails. It's called extortion.
Under they color of law the politicians and bureaucrats call it an income tax and the IRS a collection agency.
And the mainstream media facilitates them by not exposing them for what they are -- parasites. They garner unearned paychecks and usurped power. And proclaim themselves the benefactors of society.
Politicians, bureaucrats and the government consume more than they produce. On net accounting politicians and bureaucrats are net value destroyers..
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"Warning: These IRS Abuse Reports start mildly and slowly. After a while, these reports build into such a crescendo of sickening horror, criminal destructiveness, and unbearable evil that a sedative may be required to read them all:" |
Ok, so say that we all pay around 30% income right now. That would be decreased to 23%, and the government would not collect any corporate taxes. I don't think it adds up.
The 23% is based on tax law during the Clinton Aministration for replacing all federal income payroll and gift/estate taxes (>94% of federal tax revenues). ~15% to replace federal income & gift estate taxes and ~8% to replace federal payroll taxes (e.g. SS/Medicare)
As can be perceived below, that 23% rate could be moved downward in response to making the Bush administration tax cuts permantent. Infact Rep. Linder has submitted the Fair Tax Act (HR25) to the Congression Research Service economics staff for study, with that among other factors in mind to prepare for upcoming debate and re-introduction in the next session of Congress.
from Tax Freedom Day 2004 PDF http://www.taxfoundation.org/sr129.pdf
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Total Effective Tax Rates by Level of Government |
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| Year | Federal | State | Total |
| 1998 | 22.4% | 10.4% | 32.8% |
| 1999 | 22.5% | 10.4% | 32.9% |
| 2000 | 23.1% | 10.4% | 33.5% |
| 2001 | 22.2% | 10.5% | 32.7% |
| 2002 1 | 19.7% | 10.2% | 29.2% |
| 2003 2 | 18.5% | 10.1% | 28.6% |
| 2004 3 | 17.9% | 10.0% | 27.9% |
| Notes: Leap day is omitted to make dates comparable over time. Positive and negative percentages in parentheses after legislation indicate the first-year fiscal impact of the bill,measured as a percentage of NNP. Since depreciation is not available to pay taxes, GDP is an overstatement of spendable income for the purpose of measuring tax burdens. Depreciation is netted out of NNP. 1 Economic Growth and Tax Reform Reconciliation Act of 2001 Sources: Office of Management and Budget; Internal Revenue Service; Congressional Research Service; National Bureau of Economic Research; Treasury Department; and Tax Foundation calculations. |
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Repost of #66
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Those who want the current system to stay a)already have theirs and only view it selfishly, b)don't earn SH*T today, c)are involved in enterprises deemed illegal by government and avoid the system altogher, d)avoid the system other ways.
What did I miss?
Oh, yes - those that profit from this Federal slave trade...known as Progressive Income Taxation.
Of course, why not have all earnings sent to the Feds and allow them to give us individuals back as much as they believe we all need?
From each according...to each according.
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Everytime it gets boiled down, the LOOOOOSSSSSEEEERRRRR falls in the utterly ignorant or selfishly-intellectually dishonest group...
The people.
Under the Fair Tax retailers would get to keep 1/2% of what they collect to cover administration costs. This is something that state, county, and municipal governments leave up to the retailer to absorb.
Right now we have income taxes, estate taxes, payroll taxes and capital gain taxes on the federal books. The proposal is to add another kind of tax- sales tax- and make the others dormant.
The proposal is to repeal all federal income, payroll and estate taxes, and replacing the with one single rate, single stage retail sales tax administered by the states.
H.R.25, S.1493
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.Refer for additional information: http://www.fairtax.org, http://www.salestax.org & http://www.geocities.com/cmcofer/ftax.html
Besides, I would rather the government's income be based on production, not consumption. I want our nation to be a nation of producers, not consumers.
Hmm, a tax on income is at tax on production, not consumption. That which you tax you get less of.
In reference Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan it is fairer to tax people on what they extract from the economy, as roughly measured by their consumption, than to tax them on what they produce for the economy, as roughly measured by their income.
A factor well understood by the founders of the nation and but one reason among many why taxation of consumption was their preferred mode.
[Montesquieu wrote in Spirit of the Laws, XIII,c.14:]
- "A capitation is more natural to slavery; a duty on merchandise is more natural to liberty, by reason it has not so direct a relation to the person."
--Thomas Jefferson: copied into his Commonplace Book.
Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratifying Convention June 12, 1788:
- "the oppression arising from taxation, is not from the amount but, from the mode -- a thorough acquaintance with the condition of the people, is necessary to a just distribution of taxes. The whole wisdom of the science of Government, with respect to taxation, consists in selecting the mode of collection which will best accommodate to the convenience of the people."
"Imposts, excises, and, in general, all duties upon articles of consumption, may be compared to a fluid, which will, in time, find its level with the means of paying them. The amount to be contributed by each citizen will in a degree be at his own option, and can be regulated by an attention to his resources. The rich may be extravagant, the poor can be frugal; and private oppression may always be avoided by a judicious selection of objects proper for such impositions. "
"It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess.
They prescribe their own limit, which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed - that is, an extension of the revenue."
When applied to this object, the saying is as just as it is witty that, "in political arithmetic, two and two do not always make four."
If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds.
This forms a complete barrier against any material oppression of the citizens by taxes of this class, and is itself a natural limitation of the power of imposing them.
I am not entirely certain that a manufacturer's "embedded taxes" will be eliminated. Manufacturer's buy a whole ton of stuff at the retail level. They will suddenly see a 30% increase in the cost of doing business. Granted, raw materials may not be taxed, but brooms, paper, toilet paper, desks, chairs, pens, grease, wrenches, etc. suddenly became 30% more expensive. The investors are not going to "eat" that expense - it will be passed on to the consumer.
Good. Let's begin. We need to avoid a Constitutional Convention anyway. Let's make the necessary repairs in the spirit of the Founding Fathers' original intent for taxation.
Under the Fair Tax retailers would get to keep 1/2% of what they collect to cover administration costs. This is something that state, county, and municipal governments leave up to the retailer to absorb.Actually, the retailers get 1/4% and the state gets 1/4%.
Under the Fair Tax the IRS will indeed be eliminated.
They will be showing up, unannounced, at every mom & pop store across the country trying to catch people selling stuff "under the counter."
No they won't. Do state, county, and municipal governments do this now? Nope.
Also, as an employer, you will still be on the hook for SS & Medicare taxes.
Under the Fair Tax there will be no matching "employer contributions".
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