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GOP Discusses National Sales Tax
FOX ^ | Dec 1, 2004

Posted on 12/01/2004 8:25:22 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection

...President Bush and House Speaker Dennis Hastert (search) have both said the idea of a national sales tax deserves a serious look. For many, the idea of a world without the Internal Revenue Service is very seductive.

"We spend about $400 billion a year complying with the tax code. We spend $200 billion a year just filling out IRS paperwork," said Rep. John Linder (search) , R-Ga., who has proposed a bill that would create a national sales tax.

Proponents have spent millions on research and have concluded that a national sales tax can replace the income tax, payroll tax, estate tax and corporate tax. Advocates say the new tax would lower the cost of manufacturing and job creation and attract foreign investments, among other things.

"If we were to get rid of the sales or the income tax and the payroll tax and all compliance costs, we would be so ferociously competitive in a world economy that corporate America would not be competed with unless foreign corporations started building their plants in America," Linder said.

Proponents seek a 23-cent national sales tax on all retail goods, everything from groceries to clothes, cars to electronics. Everyone would pay the same rate, which critics argue is part of the problem.

"If you consume $40,000 a year and you make $50,000 a year, would you feel it is fair if a guy who made a half a million dollars a year but spent $40,000 a year paid the same tax you do? I think you wouldn't feel it's fair," said Buck Chapoton, former assistant treasury secretary.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: fairtax; irs; taax; tax; taxes; taxreform
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To: lewislynn

You still have not provided proof.


221 posted on 12/01/2004 12:36:53 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: Zon; lewislynn; Sprite518

Zon, with the FairTax, if I go to the store and buy a product worth $100 (that's the sticker price), what will my tax be?


222 posted on 12/01/2004 12:41:25 PM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Sprite518
guess they are assuming a 6% local sales tax based on the average of all 50 states. 23% is the federal rate, and not 30%.

The posters lewislynn and Your Nightmare are correct: The federal sales tax rate under the Fair Tax is indeed 29.87%, not 23%.

The 23% rate is the tax inclusive rate: that is, if you purchase something for $100 before federal Fair Taxation, you will pay an additional $29.87 in federal Fair Tax. The total would be $129.87. The 23% number is derived from the fact that the $29.87 in tax is 23% of the total of $129.87.

223 posted on 12/01/2004 12:41:49 PM PST by snowsislander
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To: FlaAvalanche
Just a little real world comment about car sales in general as regards sales tax.

Banks or other finance outfits will not finance tax. Thus, any sales tax is cash out of pocket. Even when you have "zero down" financing, the sales tax must be paid in full.

If a national sales tax ends up being significantly in excess of existing state sales tax rates, you would have people having to come up with something like 20% of the vehicle price out of pocket. Which most cannot, or will not, do.

Before any of this talk of a NRST turns into something real, this problem has to be resolved. Since most of the people making laws have never sold a damn thing but their own sunny little smiles, they are unaware of this facet. But it's a big thing, and could take a serious chunk out of sales if it comes to pass.

One of the attractions of leases is that the sales tax is paid on a monthly basis as part of the lease payment. That is a reasonable solution that could be tried in the case of an ordinary sale. It's also more equitable.

224 posted on 12/01/2004 12:42:21 PM PST by Regulator
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To: Your Nightmare
No Sir you are by sounding like Michael Moore saying, "They Lie!". Its called you don't understand that one question. Please read the entire web page instead of focusing on one part. That way you will clearly see its 23%. Instead of sounding like some sort of conspiracy freak by writing, "THEY LIE!". LOL!
225 posted on 12/01/2004 12:42:44 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: Your Nightmare

23% of income earned is tax. 23% of money spent is tax.


226 posted on 12/01/2004 12:43:17 PM PST by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Sprite518
You still have not provided proof.
Yes he did, you just don't know what you are looking at.
227 posted on 12/01/2004 12:43:48 PM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare
Any economist that honestly suggests that a consumer doesn't pay corporate taxes through embedded costs should be under psychiatric care.
From what I bothered to read of the link you provided they never really say that either. Perhaps I didn't read far enough.

If the consumer doesn't pay corporate taxes...where does the corporation get the money to pay the taxes? Do they have a source of income other then their primary good or service? If a company pays their taxes and makes a profit then obviously the cost of the tax was embedded in whatever they offer...otherwise they would go out of business.

228 posted on 12/01/2004 12:45:04 PM PST by Durus
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To: Zon
23% of income earned is tax. 23% of money spent is tax.
Nice Clintonian dodge. Why can't you just tell the truth and answer the question?
229 posted on 12/01/2004 12:45:04 PM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Zon

Outstanding! That is it! Why is this so hard to understand?


230 posted on 12/01/2004 12:45:14 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: Sprite518
Outstanding! That is it! Why is this so hard to understand?
You don't understand what he's saying.

Take my advise, stop posting until you fully understand.
231 posted on 12/01/2004 12:47:37 PM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Regulator
Banks or other finance outfits will not finance tax. Thus, any sales tax is cash out of pocket. Even when you have "zero down" financing, the sales tax must be paid in full.

You are right, they won't.

However, the Fair Tax proposal has a provision if I remember correctly (I brought this very point up a few months ago myself) and the answer is that banks are actually indemnified on loans against the sales tax. There is no equity, of course, to back this but apparently the taxpayers will make good the portion of a bad loan that is due to a loss attributable to lending against the sales tax.

232 posted on 12/01/2004 12:47:56 PM PST by snowsislander
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To: snowsislander

I am sorry snow, but you have this mixed up. Trust me!


233 posted on 12/01/2004 12:48:32 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: Jay777

What do you think you're paying now. Thia way it's upfront and all those tax cheats that work for cash under the table get to pay taxes. Helps eliminate the underground economy.


234 posted on 12/01/2004 12:48:59 PM PST by wordsofearnest (St. Louis bring back Torre.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

The DEMOCRATS will oppose it vigorously!


235 posted on 12/01/2004 12:49:17 PM PST by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: DTaggart
Sounds like the average person would have to consume 23 percent less. How will that help our economy?

corporations could reduce prices somewhat because they would not have to do all the record keeping for employee taxes, corporate taxes, etc., etc. Government would save money because a giant bureaucracy would not be necessary.
Come to think of it, how about the several hundred thousand IRS employees that would now be unemployed?
236 posted on 12/01/2004 12:50:14 PM PST by oldbrowser (You lost the election.....................Get over it.)
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To: Your Nightmare
Non not good enough. I heard that report last night on Special Report. I usually trust Foxnews, but Major got it wrong. Just look its obvious you do not understand percentages, and what they mean by inclusive vs. exclusive.
237 posted on 12/01/2004 12:50:28 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: Durus
If the consumer doesn't pay corporate taxes...where does the corporation get the money to pay the taxes?
Of course they get the money from consumers (at least, most of it), but that doesn't mean the price the consumer is paying is higher. They don't carry the burden of the tax. The investors could take less profit and keep prices the same or the business could pay their employees less and keep prices the same. Know know (or can know) for sure, but most economist believe the incidence of the corporate tax is on labor and investors, not consumers.
238 posted on 12/01/2004 12:51:06 PM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: snowsislander
There is no equity, of course, to back this but apparently the taxpayers will make good the portion of a bad loan that is due to a loss attributable to lending against the sales tax

Can't see any negative ramifications right off the bat on this, so I would say it's one plan that would ameliorate the problem.

239 posted on 12/01/2004 12:56:28 PM PST by Regulator
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To: DTaggart

The average person would start with 100% if their paycheck abd would only pay a tax when they actually spent it. If they saved it or invested it it would be tax free income.


240 posted on 12/01/2004 12:57:31 PM PST by Natural Law
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