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Evolution of creationism: Pseudoscience doesn't stand up to natural selection
Daytona Beach News-Journal ^ | 29 November 2004 | Editorial (unsigned)

Posted on 11/29/2004 6:52:41 AM PST by PatrickHenry

In a poll released last week, two-thirds of Americans said they wanted to see creationism taught to public-school science pupils alongside evolution. Thirty-seven percent said they wanted to see creationism taught instead of evolution.

So why shouldn't majority rule? That's democracy, right?

Wrong. Science isn't a matter of votes -- or beliefs. It's a system of verifiable facts, an approach that must be preserved and fought for if American pupils are going to get the kind of education they need to complete in an increasingly global techno-economy.

Unfortunately, the debate over evolution and creationism is back, with a spiffy new look and a mass of plausible-sounding talking points, traveling under the seemingly secular name of "intelligent design."

This "theory" doesn't spend much time pondering which intelligence did the designing. Instead, it backwards-engineers its way into a complicated rationale, capitalizing on a few biological oddities to "prove" life could not have evolved by natural selection.

On the strength of this redesigned premise -- what Wired Magazine dubbed "creationism in a lab coat" -- school districts across the country are being bombarded by activists seeking to have their version given equal footing with established evolutionary theory in biology textbooks. School boards in Ohio, Georgia and most recently Dover, Pa., have all succumbed.

There's no problem with letting pupils know that debate exists over the origin of man, along with other animal and plant life. But peddling junk science in the name of "furthering the discussion" won't help their search for knowledge. Instead, pupils should be given a framework for understanding the gaps in evidence and credibility between the two camps.

A lot of the confusion springs from use of the word "theory" itself. Used in science, it signifies a maxim that is believed to be true, but has not been directly observed. Since evolution takes place over millions of years, it would be inaccurate to say that man has directly observed it -- but it is reasonable to say that evolution is thoroughly supported by a vast weight of scientific evidence and research.

That's not to say it's irrefutable. Some day, scientists may find enough evidence to mount a credible challenge to evolutionary theory -- in fact, some of Charles Darwin's original suppositions have been successfully challenged.

But that day has not come. As a theory, intelligent design is not ready to steal, or even share, the spotlight, and it's unfair to burden children with pseudoscience to further an agenda that is more political than academic.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: creationism; crevolist; darwin; evolution; unintelligentdesign
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To: bobdsmith

There are 4 possible nucleotides, A, T, C, G. Given a gene there are 1000 nucleotides. Not all mutations lead to functional organisms, so we will use 3 instead of 4.

Probability of added function = w/m;

w = number leading to added function
m = all possible mutations

Just looking at m, we see

m = 3^1000 ~ 1.32E477

Even if w is very large (on the order of 1e6), m is so large that the probability goes to zero.

Given that the functional systems of life are highly coupled many mutations would be required to see the added function enabling the advancement of life.


1,821 posted on 12/16/2004 11:21:35 AM PST by nasamn777 (Neo-Darwinian evolution is a bunch of intellectual shit packaged nicely and marketed well.)
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To: nasamn777

You are simply wrong. We have seen changes to virus and bacteria where the function change is significant. That is why you need a different kind of flu shot each year, for instance.

Also, you fail to understand, depending on how long a time you think the Earth has been around, how millions of years can accumulate functional change. In addition, you are discounting whole genes forming in the "junk" DNA or by duplication that then gets switched on or by different associations of combinations of genes that are switched on by an activation of a new gene etc. An understanding of genetic mechanisms would go a long way to helping you understand that microevolution and macroevolution is the same process.


1,822 posted on 12/16/2004 11:43:45 AM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: nasamn777

"There are 4 possible nucleotides, A, T, C, G. Given a gene there are 1000 nucleotides. Not all mutations lead to functional organisms, so we will use 3 instead of 4. "

LOL You have to have functional organisms to have any mutations. Really, try to get some real understanding of genetics before you try the math.


1,823 posted on 12/16/2004 11:46:33 AM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: bobdsmith

Its just an argument from personal incredulity with off the top of the head calculations.

It does give some insight into the thinking behind the cult, though.


1,824 posted on 12/16/2004 11:53:46 AM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: shubi

But you are assuming that the changes are associated with natural selection and mutation. I think the evidence suggests that bacteria are "machines" that have the ability to adapt programmed into the genome. What you think is evidence for Neo-Darwinian evolution is actually evidence of design!


1,825 posted on 12/16/2004 1:01:14 PM PST by nasamn777 (Neo-Darwinian evolution is a bunch of intellectual shit packaged nicely and marketed well.)
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To: shubi
"LOL You have to have functional organisms to have any mutations. Really, try to get some real understanding of genetics before you try the math."

And why do you think I used 3^1000 versus 4^1000?

1,826 posted on 12/16/2004 1:07:41 PM PST by nasamn777 (Neo-Darwinian evolution is a bunch of intellectual shit packaged nicely and marketed well.)
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To: shubi

Yes, it sheds some light on the cult of Neo-Darwinian evolution and the quacks behind it.


1,827 posted on 12/16/2004 1:09:46 PM PST by nasamn777 (Neo-Darwinian evolution is a bunch of intellectual shit packaged nicely and marketed well.)
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To: nasamn777

Sorry, there are over 100 observed speciations. But keep clinging to your beliefs if you must.


1,828 posted on 12/16/2004 1:28:33 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: nasamn777

And why do you think I used 3^1000 versus 4^1000?


Why don't you use 2?


1,829 posted on 12/16/2004 1:30:01 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: shubi
Nope, they are "infintesimally"[sic] small. They accumulate in large numbers. You know, there is not much difference in the DNA of one species to another

Although your response shows that you can read the words, it also shows that you have little perception. It does use "infinitesimally" but there are other modifiers. You may stumble upon them someday if you keep reading that "difficult" to understand sentence over and over again.

1,830 posted on 12/16/2004 4:05:36 PM PST by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC

WhatEVer


1,831 posted on 12/16/2004 5:18:35 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: shubi

Any design engineer will tell you that the most difficult designs are the ones which must survive a number of different environments. Life has been designed to withstand changes in the environment -- otherwise it would just die out. The designs of life are programmed into the DNA and are selected between generations depending on the environment. What you describe as speciation is actually just different designs that are activated as the environment necesitates the change. Life is robust and dynamic because it was designed that way! Natural mutations play no part designing things. The probability is too small. Even if you use 2^1000 the number is too large. It is 1.07E301! The first mutation may be easy, but the following ones that are required so that the added function is achieved are just too improbable.


1,832 posted on 12/17/2004 6:32:30 AM PST by nasamn777 (Neo-Darwinian evolution is a bunch of intellectual shit packaged nicely and marketed well.)
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To: nasamn777

Your assumption is there must be design, so you have a circular argument going. The rest of your case is built on personal incredulity.

The fact is the Theory of Evolution explains how life changes on Earth, and while to a certain extent we might say DNA is designed, we are not sure who designed it and biology just doesn't care. Biology is perfectly happy observing allele change in populations over time.

My personal belief is God created everything, but no one will ever get smart enough to figure out exactly how. Why would God ever reveal that? It would make us all God. Maybe thats what Genesis is talking about.


1,833 posted on 12/17/2004 11:07:52 AM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: nasamn777

Please scrap the rude word in your tagline.


1,834 posted on 12/17/2004 11:12:18 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: shubi
My arguments are less circular than Neo-Darwin theory. They ignore the probability problems by starting off with the assumption that evolution did happen. They make statements like "But the frequency of mutations helps explain away the problem." Hidden in this statement is the assumption that just because a mutation is more frequent it will somehow aid in the development of function.

Observing the probability of Neo-Darwinian evolution is justification to expect design rather than natural causes through mutation and natural selection. The Neo-Darwinians don't have justification for their theory when examining the probability.

If I bought a lottery ticket and said that I would win tomorrow, people would just laugh. I may indignantly respond by saying that you rest your case on personal incredulity. But everyone knows that 1 in a million chances means something. In fact, I would say that such statements are based on ignorance. It is totally ignoring the issue of probability. Now there are not just one of these lotteries that Neo-Darwinists must win, but billions and billions -- each step in the development of new systems. You just can't throw some chemicals together and get life. The processes are interrelated and coupled, which means that many boundary conditions have to be controlled in some fashion to allow the system to come into existence. This applies not only for the origin of life but for the development of all the complex systems surrounding life -- reproduction, circulation system, immune system, brains, eyes, digestion, muscles etc.

Biologists forget the wonder of life -- for they don't design new systems (at least the vast majority of them).
1,835 posted on 12/17/2004 1:03:45 PM PST by nasamn777 (Neo-Darwinian evolution is a bunch of intellectual excrement packaged nicely and marketed well.)
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To: Admin Moderator

I hope this is good enough. Let me know if it isn't.


1,836 posted on 12/17/2004 1:04:39 PM PST by nasamn777 (Neo-Darwinian evolution is a bunch of intellectual excrement packaged nicely and marketed well.)
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To: nasamn777
"They ignore the probability problems by starting off with the assumption that evolution did happen."

No such assumption exists. If you were to read the whole of Darwin's Origin plus several others, you would see that your statement is false.

I recommend Evolution by Carl Zimmer.

"The task of science is twofold: to determine, as est we can, the empirical character of the natural world; and to ascertain why our world operates as it does, rather than in some other conceivable, but unrealized, way-in other words to specify facts and validate theories. "

"Evolution, the basic organizing concept of all the biological sciences, has been validated to an equally high degree [as Earth is round not flat], and may therefore be designated as true or factual."

He goes on to differentiate between the fact of evolution and the theory of natural selection that have been proposed to explain the causes of evolutionary change. In other words, natural selection may not be the only cause for the fact of evolution, but it is very highly likely that it is one of them.

Dr. Berra in Evolution and the Myth of Creationism says "[fundamentalists] are well aware that creationism is not science" He points out that a victory in the courts and schools for creationism risks the "fate of our society".
1,837 posted on 12/17/2004 1:21:05 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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