The Sleeping World Is Awakening to the Dangers of Islam

CHRONWATCH.COM ^ | NOVEMBER 27, 2004 | BARBARA STOCK

[nuconvert]

"Nuconvert". Does that mean you have converted to Islam?"

No. But it's always amusing that because I defend a people's right to peacefully practice their religion and expose prejudice and bigotry, that people question if I am "one of them".

[FBD]

>"It all depends on what part of holy texts you want to emphasize."<

Blind Eye,
There are hundreds of thousands of verses that pertain to the advocation of violence in the Islamic religion. The thrust of Islam is violence.

The thrust of Christianity is peace. Violence was NOT advocated by Jesus, and the fact that he drove the money changers out of the temple? He didn't harm them physicaly, in any way. Look it up.

In the case of Muhammad, he killed and tortured his enemies on a regular basis. Here is one such instance where he had some ex-Muslims (unbelievers) hands and feet cut off, then he poked out their eyes with red hot spikes:

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Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:

-"Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them....

...and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off.

Then he (Muhammad) ordered for nails, which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died."

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Dennisw; I know you know all this info on the subject, but I disagree with you on one point: Muhammad started out preaching Christianity only as a vehicle to conquer the the various tribes, and bring them into his control. The only peaceful verses in the Quran are those that are in fact stolen from the Old Testament.

The Quran is a jumbled up mess of scriptures, difficult to translate from it's Arabic, and is in fact doctored and altered in mny cases.

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Blind Eye;
Here are some links to stories and documentation from some ex-Muslims, who know what it's all about. I'll take the words of those who were in the religion, whose families were in the religion, and have lived their entire existence in the Muslim culture, over someone who merely knows a few Muslims, and therefore thinks they know something about Islam. Ibn Warraq and Dr. Ali Sina are both Arab experts on Islam, as they grew up in the Islamic world. You, my FRiend, did not.
Regards

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Dr Ali Sina; "Why I left Islam"
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/why_i_left_islam.htm

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Ibn Warraq: "Why I am Not A Muslim"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/549787/posts

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http://www.prophetofdoom.net/

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Ibn Warraq: "The Totalitarian Nature of Islam"

http://www.secularislam.org/humanrights/totalitarian.htm

"Bolshevism combines the characteristics of the French Revolution with those of the rise of Islam." "Marx has taught that Communism is fatally predestined to come about; this produces a state of mind not unlikethat of the early successors of Mahommet." Among religions, Bolshevism is to be reckoned with Mohammedanism rather than with Christianity and Buddhism. Christianity and Buddhism are primarily personal religions, with mystical doctrines and a love of contemplation. Mohammedanism and Bolshevism are practical, social, unspiritual, concerned to win the empire of this world." ~ Russell

Ibn Warraq:
"Perhaps it was Charles Watson who first described Islam as totalitarian in 1937, and proceeded to show how: "By a million roots, penetrating every phase of life, all of them with religious significance, it is able to maintain its hold upon the life of Moslem peoples. "Bousquet, one of the foremost authorities on Islamic Law, distinguishes two aspects of Islam which he considers totalitarian: Islamic Law, and the Islamic notion of Jihad which has for its ultimate aim the conquest of the entire world, in order to submit it to one single authority. We shall consider jihad in the next chapter, here we shall confine ourselves to Islamic Law.

Islamic Law has certainly aimed at "controlling the religious, social and political life of mankind in all its aspects, the life of its followers without qualification, and the life of those who follow tolerated religions to a degree that prevents their activities from hampering Islam in any way"

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[FBD]

>"But it's always amusing that because I defend a people's right to peacefully practice their religion and expose prejudice and bigotry, that people question if I am "one of them"."<

Nuconvert,
It would be nice to see you defend the rights of EX-Muslims, (those who have chosen to no longer practice this "religion"), as vociferously as you defend those who are still in this mindlessly violent, brainwashed death cult.
Regards


Dr Ali Sina; "Why I left Islam"
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/why_i_left_islam.htm


The Totalitarian Nature of Islam, By Ibn Warraq:
http://www.secularislam.org/humanrights/totalitarian.htm

Ibn Warraq: "Why I am Not A Muslim"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/549787/posts

[nuconvert]

I defend anyone's right to practice the religion of their choice.

[Blind Eye Jones]

"There is no command in the Bible to emulate (or copy) the life of Jesus Christ."

You should read the Bible without the coke bottle glasses because it does say: "Be imitators of me as I am of Christ" 1Cor 1:11; "I urge you, then, be imitators of me" 1Cor 4:16; "imitate of God as beloved children" Eph 5.1; "Brethren, join in imitating me, and" Phil 3.17;"you become imitators of us and of the Lord" 1Thess 1.6.

Oh, if my eye offends thee... pluck yours out so you may not see me. Judging on your take of scripture maybe you've already done it!

[William Terrell]

Whether they "labor" or not, and whether you think it "cannot be interpreted otherwise", means nothing. The fact is, they DO.

So what if they DO? Anyone can interpret anything to mean anything they want. The plain words they "interpret", they labor to do so. The interpretation they DO use is contrary to the entire teaching of the Koran, therefore they who do the interpreting make themselves infidels by the very word of the prophet.

[nuconvert]

"they who do the interpreting make themselves infidels by the very word of the prophet."

So What? You seem to be hung-up on whether someone meets your definition of what a muslim shoud be. They practice according to the beliefs of their particular sect.
If people want to believe in snake-handling in their church, that's their business.

[William Terrell]

But it's always amusing that because I defend a people's right to peacefully practice their religion and expose prejudice and bigotry, that people question if I am "one of them".

Those who "peacefully" practice their religion of Islam are not following their holy book and that makes them infidels by the criteria and commands of the prophet as recorded in the Koran.

If you defend their actions, you may as well be one of them.

Play close attention: a "moderate" Muslim is not a follower of Islam. A follower of Islam MUST obey the words of the prophet vis a vis Islam's goal and means toward that goal for the world and the religion of others. The words of the prophet are clear, unambiguous and any "interpretation" otherwise cannot be made and keep any kind of credibility with those written words.

Do you understand? The people you are defending are not Muslim, by definition.

Since you are a "nuconvert", what are you newly converted to?

[nuconvert]

"a "moderate" Muslim is not a follower of Islam."

You will have to convince the moderate imams and their muslim followers of that. You can start with the sufis.

[GeekDejure]

Don't forget that we have two islamicc pit vipers as 'allies' -- Pakistan and Saudi A
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Close, but no cigar. Which is to say, it's NOT "allies" ... it's "ALL LIES" (credit goes to Koran instructions regarding Allah's proven devious method for defeating pig-fat soaked Infidels) !!!

[broadsword]

"a "moderate" Muslim is not a follower of Islam."

You will have to convince the moderate imams and their muslim followers of that. You can start with the sufis.

The true followers of the Koran will convince them of that by slitting their throats.

[FBD]

>"I defend anyone's right to practice the religion of their choice."<

- Yeah, I know...and as I said; It's too bad that you don't defend the rights of EX- Muslims as vigorously.
Many ex-Muslims have had their lives threatened for leaving Islam.

I challenge you to refute anything this Ex-Muslim has to say here:

"Why I Left Islam"- By Dr. Ali Sina (excerpt from Link):

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/why_i_left_islam.htm

- "My rejection of Islam is not based on the bad deeds of the Muslims but on the bad teachings of its holy book and on the bad deeds of its founder. Many cruelties and heinous acts of violence, perpetrated by Muslims throughout the centuries were inspired by the Quran and the Sunnah (the examples of the prophet).

That is why I condemn ISLAM for the bad things that Muslims do. Any effort to humanize Islam is a waste of time. The obstacle to any reform is Quran. The enemy is Islam and that is the target of my attacks. I do that, despite knowing that I have become the magnet of the hatred of fanatical Muslims and my own life could be in danger.

Yet I know that by eradicating Islam we can save the world from the dangers of a catastrophe that otherwise is looming over our heads and could cause more disaster than the 1st and 2nd World Wars combined. Eradication of Islam means restoring peace among humanity and civility, democracy and prosperity in the Muslim world. "

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/why_i_left_islam.htm

Is Dr Ali Sina a bigot, for condemning Islam?
He was after all- "one of them".

BTW;
I know a man who had his life threatened, when he married a muslim woman. They were living in Egypt at the time. He was told by a friend of her family that there were some Muslims that wanted to kill him. He had to flee for his life.

Defend that.

Regards

[dennisw]

Muhammad preached peace and tolerance in Mecca for 13 years. After this didn't pan out he moved to Medina (the heijira), had his Allah hallucinations out in the desert, became a psycho killer warlord. And all Muslims are commanded to emulate his life. Which they call the most perfect life ever lived.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:atbchpdw0TkJ:www.faithissues.ca/OtherReligions/Islam/KoranAndTerrorism.asp+mohammed+visions+desert&hl=en&client=firefox

If Mohammed was living today, the Christians would label him as cult leader. There are so many traits of Mohammed that resembles cult leaders today. Mohammed's source of knowledge was from visions that were accompanied by convulsions that were similar to epileptic fits. The man went out of control with his visions. Such a man of uncontrollable convulsions is described by the early church fathers as being demon possessed. How many cult leaders of the last one hundred years have claimed to see visions?

[dennisw]

You can't go wrong with Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, and www.jihadwatch.com. They know the story behind the story about Muhammadanism.

[dennisw]

The key to understanding Islam is that all Muslims are commanded to emulate what Islam calls the exemplary life of Muhammad. Would you want to model your life after a man who preached peace when young then turned into a sadistic conquerer who got one fifth of all war booty. Who was a pedophile.

[Pelayo]

Belief in God or Jesus cannot be forced on someone; it must come from the heart. All well and good, but technically neither the Crusades nor the inquisitiorial religious tribunals had anything to do "Forcing" Catholocism on anyone.

[William Terrell]

They practice according to the beliefs of their holy book and prophet. If they follow their book and their prophet, they kill people.

I seem to be hung up on the fact that those who "misunderstand" will someday be brought to reality by their brethren and they will either be killed for abandoning Islam (according to the Book) or they will kill.

And that's the truth in a nutshell, bubba. If you think a hammer is a toothpick, you're liable to lose some teeth.

[William Terrell]

You will have to convince the moderate imams and their muslim followers of that. You can start with the sufis.

There are no moderate imams and their Muslim followers. There are only those who say they are, to keep the infidels off their backs. If the Sufis follow Islam, they have to follow their book and their prophet.

If they don't, they are not Muslims, so you can't call them "moderate" because they are practicing another religion.

[nuconvert]

Ex-muslims have the right to practice any religion they choose. I know they're in danger from radical muslims.

"I have become the magnet of the hatred of fanatical Muslims and my own life could be in danger."

I know this very well. I have defended all who speak out, whether they are still muslim or not.

If you don't know, I closely follow DcotorZIn's Daily Iranian Alert Thread. I know very well the dangers and brutality wrought by muslim extremists. I have never defended violence within islam.