Posted on 11/24/2004 9:35:29 AM PST by bikepacker67
The following are excerpts from a discussion on wife beating on Qatar TV:
Dr. Ibrahim Elias, a lawyer: There is a difference between instilling discipline and aggression. Likewise, there is a difference between wife beating as a phenomenon, as a right, as a duty, or as a rule.
The phenomenon of beatings is widespread, but does religion support beatings? No, religion is a means of therapy. When Allah said in the Koran "and beat them," he didn't establish it as a rule, but as a means of therapy. Does a surgeon wield a knife from the outset in order to operate? No, if there is a gangrened limb, he amputates it, and if there is pain, he treats it efficiently. Islam refers to the issue of beating at the end of the verse. Before verse 34 in the Al-Nisa Sura in the Koran it says, "As for those from whom you fear disobedience…" "Disobedience" means a wife who refrains from obeying the man. The man is the guardian in his home, he is the judge, and of better judgment. When the wife rebels…
Moderator Muna Al-Shazli: The judge and of better judgment?
Elias: Indeed, he is of better judgment. The man is the judge in his home.
Al-Shazli: There are many cases of people, including Arabs, where the wife has better judgment.
Elias: I am speaking as a rule.
Al-Shazli: Excuse me for a moment, if we accept everything in our lives as a given, we will never make progress. I'm usually neutral but there is no one here to help me, so let's discuss this…
Elias: I am neutral…
Al-Shazli: You claim that as a rule, the man is of better judgment?
Elias: Allah claims this.
Iman Bibars, Director of the Womens' Development Society: I conducted a study in seven random areas in Cairo, in Palestine, Kuwait, Jordan, and Syria. I'd like to say that I found something that took me by surprise. I call it "a culture of the electricity cable." What does it mean? The men in the study did not know one another, but they all used to beat their wives with electricity cables. These cables are large and they would beat their wives.
Dr. Elias:Our civil law and Islamic law do not present wife-beating as a rule, but they deal with a situation where a man beats his wife. What should we do then? My friend, if you beat your wife and it's only light beatings in order to set things straight - that's it. We forgive light beatings. We tell him, "They are not considered an assault, but discipline."
Al-Shazli: What do you mean by light beatings? I'd very much like to know what they are…
Elias: Light beatings, from the legal aspect…
Al-Shazli: I'd like to say something. When a man treats his wife this way, when his hand is like an iron rod, she is hurt, physically and mentally… What kind of idea is this "light beatings"?
Elias: Light beatings are not excessive. They don't leave a mark, don't break bones, don't cause bleeding, and don't cause death. These are light beatings. With some women - nothing helps except beatings.
Bibars And with some men - nothing helps except beatings.
Elias:: For example, a man comes home from work and finds his wife watching TV. She doesn't even get up to make him food. He tells her once, twice, and asks again. If only once he would raise his voice and beat her, she would get up to prepare food for him and by the next day she'd be obedient. This will last for a week and when she forgets, he will remind her. Let's admit it, the woman was created from a crooked rib.
I would like to send a message from here: The wife must speak quietly and she must carry out all her duties toward her husband and family. She must not give her husband the chance to beat her, and if he has already beaten her, she must treat him in a way that will not cause him to repeat it, so the beatings won't become a habit.
Well, now. That explains everything!
{Al-Shazli: You claim that as a rule, the man is of better judgment?
Elias: Allah claims this.}
No, a man WROTE that Allah claims it.
TROP
Strikes again, and again, and again.............
The "rule of thumb" works for me.
The following are excerpts from a discussion of women's rights and wife-beating in Islam:
Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri, member of the Egyptian Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs:How can you claim that I don't honor my wife, while she cooks my food, bakes my bread, kneads my dough, washes my clothes and my children's? A woman nowadays tells her husband, "You must cook with me, bake with me, and knead with me."
Moderator: What is wrong with that?
Participant: She's his partner, his partner.
Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri: Listen to this true story, Mrs. Nagwa. A guy went to ask for a girl's hand in marriage. He asked her father what she specializes in, and the father answered, "She has a degree in sociology, physiology, philology, psychology, and anthropology." He gave him a list. The guy asked if she knew how to run a household, and the father said: "No, there are servants." The young man said: "I need her to know cookology, doughology, loundryology, that's what I want. I don't want her to tell me, "I'm an anthropologist."
I use beatings [on my children], but symbolically. The same goes for women: "Admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." Even the manner of beatings was determined. If I said it was barbarism, it would mean that the All-Knowing Creator of the World doesn't know. He's barbaric.
Moderator: No, we don’t say that. We are talking about beatings…
Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri: It's the principle. There are beatings in the Koran and in the Sunna…
Moderator: But Mrs. Farida spoke about "barbaric beatings" or "barbaric violence."
Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri: No, she objected to beatings altogether.
Moderator: No, no, no, she did say so. She said, "Barbaric violence."
Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri This means we're allowed to beat.
Moderator: Sir, you support beatings, of course.
Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri: No, she said she was against beatings.
Participant: I oppose beatings, any beatings, barbaric or other…
Moderator:What does this mean?
Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri : It means that we refer to the Koran as a book with mistakes that need to be fixed…
such a peaceful religion.
Any man who ever lays a hand on me will live to regret the day he set eyes on me. So, there will be no argument or discussion here as far as I am concerned.
James says we should open a dialoque with folks like Bin Laden so that things like 9/11 won't happen. In fact, in The World According to James, if we had been more sensitive to Islam, 9/11 would not have happened at all.
I told James that the Islamists would not be happy until every woman in America was in a burka. I'll send this on to James and add that the women will also receive beatings so that they may better serve their men.
I wonder how James' hero Susan Sarandon will like her burka and her beatings?
A_R
There are enough well-travelled Muslims in the world who have had the opportunity to learn from other cultures. Yet, they continue to practice this "religion of peace". They want it to stay the way it is.
Oh charming. . . I'm not sure what there is to debate, if you feel the need to hit a woman as therapy I think you need to seek a TOTALLY different kind of therapy.
Mix with copious amounts of killing, genocide, discrimination and a cult brainwashed to support murder by it's latter day leaders, and you have Modern Day Islam!
{ have this friend. I'll call him James, because that is his name. James loves Michael Moore. He hates GWB.
James says we should open a dialoque with folks like Bin Laden so that things like 9/11 won't happen.}
Um...wasn't Moore one of the ones who started the rumor that Bush met with Bin Laden in New York, therefore Bush knew about 9/11 ahead of time? I know I heard that somewhere.
I understand it as you do. God created Eve to be a helpmate or partner' not to be some subservient wench at his beck and call.
[vomit]
gotta ditto that.
I was asking my rhetorical question to Pitiricus, who maintained on another thread that authoritative rabbis had opined that Islamic and Jewish morality were 90% identical.
Clearly there is no comparison between Judaism and Islam.
?
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