The (Ukrainian) Revolution WILL be Blogged

The Postmodern Clog Blog ^ | 11/24/2004 | Discoshaman

[JerseyHighlander]

novembre 24, 2004 Updates from PORA -- The Revolution WILL be blogged.

I've joined the PORA opposition group as an English page editor for the internet news site Maidan.org.ua (the #4 website in Ukraine!) I'm writing from HQ.

Here is some breaking news we've received:

-Authorities have begun violent action against peaceful protesters near the Presidential Admin building. 2 buses of special ops police units drove up and have moved on the demonstrators.

- The tent city has now reached as far as the Central Department Store on Kreshatik Street.

- The pro-Yanukovych tent city seems to be bleeding people at a quick rate. They either can't take the cold, or the heat. :)

- Provocateurs planted an "explosive" device in our tent city. Snipers were called in.

- There are reports of tanks approaching the city. This is still unconfirmed, and I'm skeptical about this one.

Stay tuned! The Revolution WILL be blogged. Posted by Discoshaman at 03:27 PM | Tossed Clogs (6) | TrackBack (0) New Digs and a New Gig in Tent City

It snowed throughout last night, but it was a nice, warmish sort of snow. And it made everything look beautiful, hopeful and new this morning.

I'm no longer bunking with the guys from Lutsk Region. I've landed a spot in the roomy, warm tent of a local Evangelical congregation. They even have a Jesus fish flag flying overhead. They couldn't have been more welcoming.

I've also found some new work for the times when there aren't any demonstrations. I'm volunteering nights at the tent city press center, and it looks like I'll be doing editing for the English version of Maidan.org. This is an independent news source set up after the slaying of the journalist Georgiy Gongadze, and is one of the most popular news sites in Ukraine these days. I have a meeting with them in about an hour. Wish me luck! Posted by Discoshaman at 10:54 AM | Tossed Clogs (2) | TrackBack (0) Updates!

- The oligarch forces have bussed in Yanukovych "supporters", and they're setting up their own camp nearby. It has about 1,000 people, all of whom are large and male. In other words, rented Donetsk muscle.

- Yulia Tymoschenko has pulled demonstrators away from the Presidential Administration building. She's announced that there are Russian troops inside the area. They've been given orders to fire for effect. The Ukrainian people are incensed at the idea of Russian troops threatening Ukrainian citizens.

But isn't this typical of an authoritarian system? In Tiananmen Square, the Chinese shipped in troops from far outlying provinces. In Iran, the mullahs use Chechen mercenaries to put down the people. So why not Donetsk rent-a-thugs and Russian loaner troops?

- Good news! The linguistics university in Kiev and another Uni in Bila Tserkva have joined the student strike. It grows by the day. Posted by Discoshaman at 10:05 AM | Tossed Clogs

[Destro]

Word of caution: PORA is funded by George "Bush is a Nazi" Soros.

[epluribus_2]

if he was a kulak he was probably killed - his crime being that HIS property grew food whilst the commie gardens grew dead bodies.

[Rocky Mountain Mama]

"Is the Ukraine even capable of independence?"

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read this comment. This is from FReepers?

[Rocky Mountain Mama]

There is a Ukraine Election Crisis Thread Roundup thread now. I have added this thread to it. Please let others know on other threads; so that when new threads are started, they can be added to it. Thanks very much.

[MarMema]

PORA is funded by George "Bush is a Nazi" Soros.

It occurs to me that this is much like the Chechens or even the Balkans. It takes time for people here to get past the word "freedom" and the media onslaught so they can understand.

[ohioWfan]

What interest does Soros have in having a pro-Western leader in Ukraine. (He's FOR the Communist in our election, and AGAINST the Communist in Ukraine's??)

This is beyond strange.

[MarMema]

The pro-Western candidate is supported by the Socialists of the country. He is pro-Western because he is pro-EU and not pro-Russian.

[MarMema]

Anyway the whole thing was written out by Ziggy Brzezinski many years ago in a book. It's about the division of Russia into small (powerless) countries, and western control of them. Ziggy wrote that NATO should go for first Poland and then Ukraine. He wanted to use NATO to pull Russia's satellite countries away from her influence, eventually surrounding her with westernized countries that relied on us or other western powers primarily.

Just google the "Brzezinski plan". It's not only Brzezinski and Soros but Halfbright and cronies who are into this. Russia has long been threatened by this scenario.

[LibertarianInExile]

I'm not sure if you're against it because they're for it or if you're just putting it out there that Soros and Zbiggy supported an idea like this.

I cannot believe the number of Freepers who have jumped on the "Soros likes it so it must be bad" bandwagon. I hope that is not where you are falling. Soros presumably would not have every other person in the U.S. shot, either. Should we then support that? John Kerry once voiced supported for a larger military presence in Iraq. Should we be against that? He also voiced support for withdrawing--should we then be against both?

[struwwelpeter]

Some countries can't handle it on their own. Probably no Moslem country can cut it. Ukraine probably can't either.

Go there and live there like I did. Wake up every day to an orphan knocking on your door, begging for bread. Deal with the bureaucrats, cops, alcoholics and other urody. Live in a fifth-floor walk-up in a city that hasn't had running water since 'independence'.

Ukraine as a nation makes even Russia look good. Which is why one million Ukrainians work there.

Both Yanukovich and Yushchenko are long-time government insiders. They are responsible for turning a bread basket into a basket case, an industrial giant into a fourth-world nation where PhDs sell windowbox parsley and sunflower seeds on the street corner, and retirees commit suicide rather than starve on their generous $10 a month pensions.

Neither Yanukovich nor Yushchenko will make any difference in the Ukraine, and the sooner the US realizes it doesn't have a dog in this fight, the better.

I've been posting translations about the Ukraine on this site for almost six years. You probably did not notice these during your four weeks on the site.

[KOZ.]

Some countries can't handle it on their own. Probably no Moslem country can cut it. Ukraine probably can't either.

its AMAZING that i am hearing this on FR! according to you should we just pull out of iraq and leave ukraine to the new USSR? maybe we should just give up all together and the world eat itself alive.

They are responsible for turning a bread basket into a basket case

the russia, the soviet union and communism are responsible for turning ukraine into a basketcase, and systematically destroying a great country during the USSRs 70 year existance.

[MarMema]

I don't like the entire crew behind Yuschenko. And beyond that I think Soros is the forerunner for the antiChrist. You probably don't know as much about his spending as I do. I work in healthcare. Soros is funding pilot programs in this country promoting earlier deaths for chronically ill children. This goes against everything I do for a living. I despise and loathe Soros, probably beyond what you can imagine, because he is far more than a political gameplayer, he is anti-life and the father of the culture of death.

So yes, to answer your question, there is nothing good about Soros and what he supports.

You may want to spend some time browsing his pro-death website.

[KOZ.]

here are a few great ariticles and threads:

WashTimes: "Disputed vote pushes Ukraine toward strife"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1288490/posts

Wall street journal: "Back to the USSR"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1288792/posts

Rush Limbaugh: "Is Putin Using Ukraine to Resurrect Old Evil Empire?"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1288638/posts

[jimbo123]

Your hero Putin is selling nukes to Iran. Soros is a piece of crap, but Putin is the greater enemy. When Iran nukes D.C., you can send your thanks to Putin for selling the mullahs their enriched uranium and plutonium.

[struwwelpeter]

That's just my opinion, and as you know, KOZel, opinions are like ***holes, everyone's got one ;-)

Once we don't allow other people opinions, do we become democrats?

Besides, what do I know? I don't live there anymore. Can't handle it. I've spilled blood and will spill blood for my country, but Ukraine isn't it.

That said, a today's letter from Kyiv:

Da, u nas seychas slozhnoe vremya, vsya strana na ulitse. No, slava bogu, net vooruzhennykh stolknoveniy, politicheskaya zabastovka idet v mirnom rusle. No Yanukovich i, glavnoe nash garant Kuchma, nakalyayut obstanovku. Odin is vysokopostavlennykh militseyskikh chinov, zam. ministra MVS, skazal, chto ulitsa vydokhnetsya skoro i vse zarikhnet. No nakal usilivaetsya. Uzhe pochti vse goroda vystupili v podderzhku Yushchenko i mestnye deputaty vystupili v podderzhku Yushchenko i otkazyvayutsya vypolnyat' rasporyazheniya predstaviteley Yanukovicha i Kuchmy. No nyneshnie praviteli i ne dumayut podavat' v otstavku. Uzhas. Starayutsya natravit' lyudey drug na druga, chtoby sprovotsirovat' vooruzheniy konflikt v vvesti chrezvychaynoe polozhenie. S Donetska priezhayut p'yanye lyudi i krichat, chto oni za Yanukovicha. No Yushchenko i ego komanda ne dopuskayut takoy variant razvitiya sobytiy. Ya uverena, chto narod pobedit, nas mnogo, milliony. Skushay kusochek indeyki i za menya.

"Yes, we are in complicated times, the entire nation is out on the street. But, thank God, there are no armed confrontations, the political strike remains at a peaceful level. But Yanukovich and our chief guarrantor Kuchma heat up the situation. One of the high-ranking police bureaucrats, the acting director of the MVS, said that the street will get tired and everything will calm down. But the heating up (of the situation) increases. Almost all cities have cast their lot with Yushchenko and the local parliament deputies have spoken their support and are refusing to carry out the orders of Yanukovich's and Kuchma's representatives. But the present-time leaders aren't even thinking of resigning. Terrible. They are trying to make people fight each other, in order to provoke an armed conflict and declare a state of emergency. From Donesk arrive drunken people who scream that they are for Yanukovich. But Yushchenko and his team won't allow this to happen. I am sure that the people will win, we are many, millions."

Just because I don't hold my correspondent's opinion, doesn't mean I won't translate and share her information. I honor and defend her right to hold this opinion.

Because I am a republican.

[Rocky Mountain Mama]

"I've been posting translations about the Ukraine on this site for almost six years. You probably did not notice these during your four weeks on the site."

Sorry, man. I have been to the Ukraine and have friends there, but didn't live there like you. So I recognize you are the expert here. Can I ask you one question, this is something I don't understand. If neither of these men will make one bit of difference, then why are one million people in Kiev protesting the election? I am not asking this to be a smart ass, but because I really don't understand why people are so fired up if the results don't matter. Sorry if you have explained this already; if you could just post the link, I would appreciate it.

[jmc813]

What interest does Soros have in having a pro-Western leader in Ukraine. (He's FOR the Communist in our election, and AGAINST the Communist in Ukraine's??)

Remember that the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend. Despite the fact that Yush is backed by Soros, all objective analysis points to him winning the election. We must respect the sanctiy of free elections.

[jmc813]

I work in healthcare. Soros is funding pilot programs in this country promoting earlier deaths for chronically ill children. This goes against everything I do for a living.

Forgive me for suspecting that your opposition is fueled by more than Soros' positions on health care.

[LibertarianInExile]

Hang on a sec...adjusting...

Okay, say that again?

Seriously, I don't like the man, but GEEZ, the enemy of your enemy is NOT always your friend. Russia is not our friend, either, no matter what Bush thinks he sees in Putin's soul. And Soros doesn't run a country like Putin, and won't, no matter how much he pays.

You don't like the entire crew behind Yuschenko? Check out the Commie hall of fame on Yanuk's side. I'm sorry, but no matter how much people bash Yush for taking Soros' bucks, I'm not about to say that tars him as the worse candidate. That seems to be the best and most-repeated argument against him here, and that's not much of an argument at all.

[struwwelpeter]

I'm no expert either, and I hope and pray that the situation resolves itself and that 'the best man' becomes president. Too bad he wasn't running.

But a question for you: why does it matter if Russia looks out for its interests in the Ukraine? When George Soros, Jacques Chiraq, the EU and UN all support someone, I'm inclined to lean the other direction.

Myself, as an American I'm PO-ed at Putin for North Korea, Iran and Iraq. I've translated anti-Putin articles here from Anna Politskovskaya, and helped set up the anti-Putin web pages for the Burbans at nordostjustice.org.

As a former analyst, I believe that all data needs to be evaluated.

This is why I can converse in a friendly fashion with both Tapthesource and Marmema. Even in the same thread ;-)

Personally, I can understand where Russia is coming from on this. Ukraine is too close to home to allow instability. It's their Mexico, except that ten million ethnic Russians (try) to live there, in the Ukraine's most depressed territories.

My worry about Russia moving on the Ukraine is that China will 'misunderestimate' this to mean that they have a green light in Taiwan.