Posted on 11/24/2004 7:06:07 AM PST by Pikamax
Dutch Shocked by Public Death Wish from Muslim Wed Nov 24, 2004 07:40 AM ET
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Dutch leaders on Wednesday condemned comments by a Muslim teacher who said he hoped for the death of a popular politician, further stoking religious tension prompted by the murder of a filmmaker critical of Islam. Abdul-Jabbar van de Ven, a Dutch convert to Islam, told a Dutch television chat show on Tuesday he hoped anti-immigration populist Geert Wilders would soon die, although he did not want him to be killed by a Muslim.
Interior Minister Johan Remkes said he was horrified by the remarks and said the Justice Ministry would look into the matter. "It is too crazy for words," he told Dutch news agency ANP.
Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk agreed:
"How can it be that we have sunk so far in the Netherlands? I am really worried about this," she told Dutch television.
Wilders, whose popularity has soared since he called for a crackdown on Muslim militants following the murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh this month, has been the subject of several death threats for his views on Islam and immigration.
Wilders is seen as a new Pim Fortuyn, the Dutch maverick killed by an animal rights activist in 2002. Wilders wants to launch a new right-wing party ahead of elections due in 2007 and a recent poll put him ahead of the ruling Christian Democrats.
Van de Ven said he would prefer Wilders to die of an illness, like cancer, and added he had felt some happiness when he heard of the death of Van Gogh. A Dutch-Moroccan man has been charged with the murder and with threatening another politician.
In a declaration on Wednesday, Van de Ven -- who converted to Islam aged 14 and is now a Muslim teacher with links to a Saudi foundation -- said he had gone into hiding and had had not wanted to urge anybody to kill Wilders.
Meanwhile, a debate raged about Muslim treatment of women after an imam refused to shake hands with Verdonk.
Imam Ahmad Salam told a news conference on Tuesday he was keen to talk to the minister about integration but said Islam prohibited contact with women outside the immediate family.
"It seems as if integration for Minister Verdonk is something that should lead to people outside of Islam saying how Muslims should practise Islam," he said.
The Netherlands, which is home to almost one million Muslims, or about 6 percent of the population, saw a wave of apparent tit-for-tat attacks on mosques, churches and religious schools after the Van Gogh murder.
Wanted to clarify:
"One night, right before I left the country, I was talking to a fellow employee from the Netherlands."
Should be:
"One night, right before I left the COMPANY, I was talking to a fellow employee, who was from the Netherlands"
Socialism and the delusion of your culture.
That's really easy to explain.
When a people leaves its roots that have sustained them, and uplifted them, for generations, and welcomes into its culture those set upon destroying them they sink to the level seen in Holland today.
Multiculturalism, diversity, globalism, inclusiveness, etc., are all code-words for socialism which is self-destructive.
My point was that a truly Christian culture in the Netherlands would have inspired converts from Islam and Muslims would feel powerless in the Netherlands to use violence to stop conversions.
This would result in immigration of only the most moderate and productive Muslims, rather than festering enclaves of lazy death cultists.
Enough of those converts from Islam and the West would have a small army of Arabic missionaries.
Exactly. That was my thought as well.
No it wouldn't... Christianity never convinced my people to convert... And we have been in Holland for 500 years... Islam would be in the same position...
You seem to believe that christianity is very appealing... Well believe me, for quite a big number of people, it isn't... It works for you? Fine... Don't think that it works for all!
The real mistake in Holland was not to force then to learn Dutch and suscribe to the Constitution of the state... This is the mistake of multiculturalism... Christinaity has nothing to do with it!
Very sad. The world as we know it has definitely been altered.
When I was little, the mention of Paris, Amsterdam , London and other places conjured up images of the Eiffel Tower, Big Ben, windmills, tulips and others.
Now they soon be associated with Mosques.
So what? He's a dangerous cat. If He's a real honest to Allah muslim He would be happy to move to the middle east.
Wouldn't he?
Actually, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but the Netherlands, since the Christian Democrats have got in, has been a strong supporter of President Bush and even the War in Iraq.....Please don't lump in the Netherlands with the yuck gross Belgium.
My point is that I'm surprised THEY are surprised at the evil of Islam.
The problem with your arguement is that Islam doesn't ask you to convert like modern Christianity does - it tells you to convert.
Embracing Political Correctness while condemning Christians and morality may be fatal to a lot of Euro Trash Nations.
Let the record show that I, a Christian, will go on the record and state that Judaism is a far more appealing religion than Islam and that it makes much more sense to convert from Islam to Christianity than it does to convert from Judaism to Christianity.
I note with interest that you, who claim to be Jewish, are putting Islam on a par with Judaism.
I'll also note that many Jews throughout history have converted to Christianity, including all of the first twelve Christians.
You seem to believe that christianity is very appealing... Well believe me, for quite a big number of people, it isn't... It works for you? Fine... Don't think that it works for all!
My post made the assumption that in the marketplace of ideas traditional Christian morality (which is nothing other than traditional Jewish morality) will be more appealing to people than either the dregs of secular humanism or the vileness of Islamic "morality".
I said nothing about everyone converting.
The real mistake in Holland was not to force then to learn Dutch and suscribe to the Constitution of the state...
The foundational mistake was the secularized, deracinated culture that shied away from promoting any clear moral viewpoint. Dutch society did not compel Dutch speaking or loyalty to the Dutch state because it no longer inspires its own citizens to take pride in their own identity. Legalized hash is not a culture.
This is the mistake of multiculturalism... Christinaity has nothing to do with it!
What a silly comment. The historical culture of Holland is Christianity. The multicultural outlook has been disastrous precisely because it devalued and delegitimized historical Dutch culture - which is the culture of not only of Rembrandt and the Old Masters but also of William the Silent and the devotio moderna. It was a Christian culture. And a Christian culture which had a place for and a respect for its Jewish citizens I might add, from the most frum to Baruch Spinoza.
Inattention.
Weakness.
Lack of conviction.
We can think of some more...
I am not the only one who puts Islam on par with Judaism... The difference between islam and Judaism is very small (some scholars have told about 10%)
Maimonides was another one who saw Islam as more akin to Judaism than Christianity (which until almost the end of his life he saw as tainted by politheism)... You see what is the problem today is not Islam per se, but the Wahabbi strain of Islam, propagated by Saudi money.... This is the problem!
This only started in the 18th century, and for centuries was confined in the Arabian peninsula.
I don't see traditional christian morality as so appealing... No divorce? Give me a break! A way to unhappiness as history has shown...
Again, the error was multiculturalism... I don't see any problem with non christian society except that you need a strong civic underpinning... This was lost with multiculturalism!
True, it's sad, but it's also so very true.
I wouldn't be too hard on them. Prior to 9-11-2001, the majority of people in this country were just as oblivious to it.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.