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Economic `Armageddon' predicted
http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=55356 ^ | 11/23/2004 | Brett Arends

Posted on 11/23/2004 5:07:35 PM PST by tmp02

Stephen Roach, the chief economist at investment banking giant Morgan Stanley, has a public reputation for being bearish.

But you should hear what he's saying in private.

Roach met select groups of fund managers downtown last week, including a group at Fidelity.

His prediction: America has no better than a 10 percent chance of avoiding economic ``armageddon.''

Press were not allowed into the meetings. But the Herald has obtained a copy of Roach's presentation. A stunned source who was at one meeting said, ``it struck me how extreme he was - much more, it seemed to me, than in public.''

Roach sees a 30 percent chance of a slump soon and a 60 percent chance that ``we'll muddle through for a while and delay the eventual armageddon.''

The chance we'll get through OK: one in 10. Maybe.

In a nutshell, Roach's argument is that America's record trade deficit means the dollar will keep falling. To keep foreigners buying T-bills and prevent a resulting rise in inflation, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan will be forced to raise interest rates further and faster than he wants.

The result: U.S. consumers, who are in debt up to their eyeballs, will get pounded.

Less a case of ``Armageddon,'' maybe, than of a ``Perfect Storm.''

Roach marshalled alarming facts to support his argument.

To finance its current account deficit with the rest of the world, he said, America has to import $2.6 billion in cash. Every working day.

That is an amazing 80 percent of the entire world's net savings.

Sustainable? Hardly.

Meanwhile, he notes that household debt is at record levels.

Twenty years ago the total debt of U.S. households was equal to half the size of the economy.

Today the figure is 85 percent.

Nearly half of new mortgage borrowing is at flexible interest rates, leaving borrowers much more vulnerable to rate hikes.

Americans are already spending a record share of disposable income paying their interest bills. And interest rates haven't even risen much yet.

You don't have to ask a Wall Street economist to know this, of course. Watch people wielding their credit cards this Christmas.

Roach's analysis isn't entirely new. But recent events give it extra force.

The dollar is hitting fresh lows against currencies from the yen to the euro.

Its parachute failed to open over the weekend, when a meeting of the world's top finance ministers produced no promise of concerted intervention.

It has farther to fall, especially against Asian currencies, analysts agree.

The Fed chairman was drawn to warn on the dollar, and interest rates, on Friday.

Roach could not be reached for comment yesterday. A source who heard the presentation concluded that a ``spectacular wave of bankruptcies'' is possible.

Smart people downtown agree with much of the analysis. It is undeniable that America is living in a ``debt bubble'' of record proportions.

But they argue there may be an alternative scenario to Roach's. Greenspan might instead deliberately allow the dollar to slump and inflation to rise, whittling away at the value of today's consumer debts in real terms.

Inflation of 7 percent a year halves ``real'' values in a decade.

It may be the only way out of the trap.

Higher interest rates, or higher inflation: Either way, the biggest losers will be long-term lenders at fixed interest rates.

You wouldn't want to hold 30-year Treasuries, which today yield just 4.83 percent.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: armageddon; bearishness; drugs; economy; hallucinations; loser; lunacy; mentalbreakdown; morganstanley; paranoia; prophecy; rehabilitation
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1 posted on 11/23/2004 5:07:35 PM PST by tmp02
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To: tmp02
His prediction: America has no better than a 10 percent chance of avoiding economic ``armageddon.''

I'll save this one in my collection of Dumbassed Predictions That Never Came True.

These predictions are invariably made by Democrats and other Leftists and terrorist sympathizers.

2 posted on 11/23/2004 5:09:50 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: tmp02

The DU guys had this article posted earlier today and as predictable, they were giddy about this guys prognostics.


3 posted on 11/23/2004 5:10:27 PM PST by GWB00
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To: tmp02

You wouldn't be trolling would ya?


4 posted on 11/23/2004 5:12:21 PM PST by Chuck54 (Four more years of lower taxes and killing terrorists. I love it.)
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To: Chuck54
You wouldn't be trolling would ya?

Not unless he's a sleeper troll (which I doubt). The guy's been here for over a year.

5 posted on 11/23/2004 5:13:57 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: tmp02
Roach predicted "armageddon" on January 1, 2000 when millions of mainframes, worldwide, would bring the world to its knees.

Roach has never been right, about anything. He even missed the Clinton recession.

6 posted on 11/23/2004 5:14:08 PM PST by sinkspur ("It is a great day to be alive. I appreciate your gratitude." God Himself.)
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To: GWB00

This is very bad stuff. Nothing to be "giddy" about. And he's only repeating what others, like Paul Volcker(SP?)have been saying for a year or more.


7 posted on 11/23/2004 5:14:36 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: tmp02
Me thinks Roach is a....


8 posted on 11/23/2004 5:14:49 PM PST by Dallas59 ("A weak peace is worse than war" - Tacitcus)
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To: GWB00
The Dummies' desire for the USA to fall is palpable. And just so sad.
9 posted on 11/23/2004 5:15:18 PM PST by Kornev
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To: Prime Choice

I fully agree, this one goes in with the ice age tree huggers were predicting back in the 70's.


10 posted on 11/23/2004 5:15:20 PM PST by Dozer3
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To: Prime Choice

Crap. Just like all the rest of these nutty predictions we have heard for the past 30 years. Yeah, sell your stocks. I'll be buying when the prices go down.

Stupid.


11 posted on 11/23/2004 5:15:55 PM PST by Rightone
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To: Kornev

Many at the bottom or near the bottom feel that a crash will level the playing field. It won't. What it will do is grind them to dust.


12 posted on 11/23/2004 5:17:24 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: tmp02
The result: U.S. consumers, who are in debt up to their eyeballs, will get pounded.

So, since I have no debt that means I'll prosper?

13 posted on 11/23/2004 5:18:09 PM PST by Thermalseeker
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To: sinkspur

He was right about the dot com bust and he was right about the gutting of America's smoke stake industries, when he switched position on the topic back in the early to mid-90s.


14 posted on 11/23/2004 5:20:12 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: tmp02

This article borders on hysteria. Nearly every sentence is saturated with excessive anxiety.


15 posted on 11/23/2004 5:22:14 PM PST by Starboard
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To: sinkspur

"Armageddon" is a relative word. For some "armageddon" will be the loss of their savings. For others it means additional opportunity. The free market always picks and chooses its losers.


16 posted on 11/23/2004 5:22:14 PM PST by meenie
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To: tmp02
Opinions are like a-holes in that everyone has one. Roach is a perma-bear although I do think some of his points are very good. John Mauldin just wrote a great book called Bull's Eye Investing that covers everything from our domestic economy to the world economy as well, and does a great job of helping investors protect their capital in the coming very shaky years. He's not forecasting ``armageddon'' although he thinks we will see a muddle through economy for a long time because of some of the same things that Roach worries about.
17 posted on 11/23/2004 5:22:33 PM PST by conservativecorner
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To: Chuck54

Nyaa, these "Doom is Just Around the Corner" threads have been a staple on FR for as long as I've been here.

Here's one thing that has decreased in price: You can get a copy of Bankruptcy 1995: The Coming Collapse of America and How to Stop It for a mere 49 cents.

18 posted on 11/23/2004 5:23:03 PM PST by Nick Danger (Want some wood?)
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To: durasell
I take back my previous post...

Jan 2000:

Stephen Roach:

The forces behind the slower growth -- higher energy prices, a slowdown in technology spending, tighter credit, and the negative effects of declining stock prices --

certainly aren't going away. Morgan Stanley Dean Witter Chief Economist Stephen Roach argues that with this mix in place, all it would take is one of three "shocks" to shove the U.S. into recession. These include a full-scale energy crisis, brought on by a very cold winter or a war in the Middle East; a weakening dollar, as foreign funds pull out of the U.S.; or a stock-market crash that scares consumers into curbing spending.

Unfortunately, none of these shock scenarios seem far-fetched right now. Roach gives a 40% probability of recession in the first half of 2001. "To me, that is tantamount to maximum alert," he writes.
19 posted on 11/23/2004 5:23:11 PM PST by Dallas59 ("A weak peace is worse than war" - Tacitcus)
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To: tmp02

To give Stephen Roach credit, he's not saying this for political reasons. As the lead-in suggests, he's bearish.

The current account deficit really is horrific, and puts us at a disadvantage with countries like China, which certainly would love to damage the United States.

Of course he may be completely wrong, but his predictions are based on economics, not politics. There are plenty of political minded, Bush-bashing economists, but I don't think he's one of them.


20 posted on 11/23/2004 5:24:13 PM PST by Cicero (Nil illegitemus carborundum est)
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