Please sign the No2Arnold Petition
Posted on 11/23/2004 11:32:59 AM PST by Jon Alvarez
Like him or not, as Americans we should all stand together to say NO to any change in the US Constitution that would allow foreign-born, naturalized citizens to run for and hold the highest office in this great land...Apparently a movement is underway to change the US Constitution. We must stand up to this and oppose it.
Please sign the No2Arnold Petition
§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
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The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.
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No it is not. Check the 12th Amendment. The Vice-President must have the same qualifications as does the President. So no sliding in Arnold or Clinton (again) just because they ran for Vice-President...
dvwjr
Well, it's wrong. See the last sentence of the XII Amendment. It's pretty clear.
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.3 --The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
Two more examples: India and Israel allow naturalized citizens to become prime minister.
Why do I get the impression that this is just a smokescreen for something else Arnie has in mind ?
I guess so...seal the border.
then don't...
you're mean!
This would be among the worst if not THE worst bit of legislation in our Country's history.
This needs to be "outed" for what it would bring.
Anyone who would vote for it needs to be run out of Dodge!
Mean? Nah. Ornery and full of mischief? Oh yeahhhhh. :o)
With what? Saran Wrap?
if Israel can do it, so can we...
50 caliber machine guns, too.
;)
If I correctly read where you'd like to go with that statement (i.e. something to do with abortion), unfortunately, the qualifier of "a person born..." would appear to be a difficulty.
"No guys, it was Germany. Adlof Hitler was born in Brannau, Austria in 1885. He was not a natrual-born German, as much as he claimed he was."
Actually, Der Fuehrer was born in 1889, on the 20th of April. And the full name of the town is Braunau am Inn. And he never claimed to be anything other than Austrian--that's why the Anschluss was so important to him. Being an Austrian in Germany is what led to the development of his idea for a Greater Germanic Reich, with a state for all ethnically-Germanic peoples, with the rest reduced to economic slavery and political impotence.
You got my vote.
John Jay to George Washington.
New York 25 July 1787
Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise & seasonable to provide a a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expresly that the Command in chief of the american army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.
The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 Thursday July 26. 1787.
On the question to agree to the whole resolution respecting the supreme Executive namely.
Resolved That a national Executive be instituted
to consist of a Single Person
to be chosen by the national Legislature
for the term of seven years
to be ineligible a second time
with power to carry into execution the national Laws
to appoint to Offices in cases not otherwise provided for.
to be removable on impeachment and conviction of malpractice or neglect of duty.
to receive a fixed compensation for the devotion of his time to public service
to be paid out of the public Treasury.
it passed in the affirmative. [Ayes--6; noes--3; divided--1.]
It was moved and seconded to agree to the following Resolution namely.
Resolved That it be an instruction to the Committee to whom were referred the proceedings of the Convention for the establishment of a national government, to receive a clause or clauses, requiring certain qualifications of landed property and citizenship in the United States for the Executive, the Judiciary, and the Members of both branches of the Legislature of the United States; and for disqualifying all such persons as are indebted to, or have unsettled accounts with the United States from being Members of either Branch of the national Legislature.
It was moved and seconded to strike out the word "landed"
it passed in the affirmative [Ayes--10; noes--1.]
On the question to agree to the clause respecting the qualification as amended
it passed in the affirmative [Ayes--8; noes--3.]
It was moved and seconded to add the words "and Pensioners of the Government of the United States" to the clause of disqualification
which passed in the negative. [Ayes--3; noes--7; divided--1.]
It was moved and seconded to strike out the following words, namely
"or have unsettled accounts with"
which passed in the affirmative. [Ayes--9; noes--2.]
On the question to agree to the clause of disqualification as amended
it passed in the negative [Ayes--2; noes--9.]
It was moved and seconded to refer such proceedings of the Convention, as have been agreed on since Monday last, to the Committee of detail
which passed unanimously in ye affirmative
and then the House adjourned till monday Augt 6th
MADISON Thursday July. 2< 6 > in Convention
< On the question on the whole resolution as amended in the words following--"that a National Executive be instituted--to consist of a single person--to be chosen by the Natl. legislature--for the term of seven years--to be ineligible a 2d. time--with power to carry into execution the natl. laws--to appoint to offices in cases not otherwise provided for--to be removeable on impeachment & conviction of mal-practice or neglect of duty--to receive a fixt compensation for the devotion of his time to the public service, to be paid out of the Natl. Treasury"--it passed in the affirmative> N. H. ay. Mas. not on floor. Ct. ay. N.J. ay. Pa. no. Del. no. Md. no. Va. divd. Mr. B. < Blair > & Col. M. < Mason > ay. Genl. W. < Washington > & Mr M--< Madison > no. Mr. Randolph happened to be out of the House. N-- C-- ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. [Ayes--6; noes--3; divided--1; absent--1.]
Mr Mason moved "that the Committee of detail be instructed to receive a clause requiring certain qualifications of landed property & citizenship < of the U. States > in members of the Legislature, and disqualifying persons having unsettled Accts. with or being indebted to the U. S. < from being members of the Natl. Legislature" > He observed that persons of the latter descriptions had frequently got into the State Legislatures, in order to promote laws that might shelter their delinquencies; and that this evil had crept into Congs. if Report was to be regarded.
Mr Pinckney seconded the motion
Mr Govr. Morris. If qualifications are proper, he wd. prefer them in the electors rather than the elected. As to debtors of the U. S. they are but few. As to persons having unsettled accounts he believed them to be pretty many. He thought however that such a discrimination would be both odious & useless. and in many instances unjust & cruel. The delay of settlemt. had been more the fault of the public than of the individuals. What will be done with those patriotic Citizens who have lent money, or services or property to their Country, without having been yet able to obtain a liquidation of their claims? Are they to be excluded?
Mr. Ghorum was for leaving to the Legislature, the providing agst such abuses as had been mentioned.
Col. Mason mentioned the parliamentary qualifications adopted in the Reign of Queen Anne, which he said had met with universal approbation
Mr. < Madison > had witnessed the zeal of men having accts. with the public, to get into the Legislatures for sinister purposes. He thought however that if any precaution were to be taken for excluding them, the one proposed by Col. M< ason > ought to be new modelled. It might be well to limit the exclusion to persons who had recd money from the public, and had not accounted for it.
Mr Govr. Morris--It was a precept of great antiquity as well as of high authority that we should not be righteous overmuch. He thought we ought to be equally on our guard agst. being wise over much. The proposed regulation would enable the Govent. to exclude particular persons from office as long as they pleased He mentioned the case of the Commander in chief's presenting his account for secret services, which he said was so moderate that every one was astonished at it; and so simple that no doubt could arise on it. Yet had the Auditor been disposed to delay the settlement, how easily might he have affected it, and how cruel wd. it be in such a case to keep a distinguished & meritorious Citizen under a temporary disability & disfranchisement. He mentioned this case merely to illustrate the objectionable nature of the proposition. He was opposed to such minutious regulations in a Constitution. The parliamentary qualifications quoted by Col. Mason, had been disregarded in practice; and was but a scheme of the landed agst the monied interest.
Mr Pinckney & Genl. Pinckney moved to insert by way of amendmt. the words Judiciary & Executive so as to extend the qualifications to those departments which was agreed to nem con
Mr. Gerry thought the inconveniency of excluding a few worthy individuals who might be public debtors or have unsettled accts ought not to be put in the Scale agst the public advantages of the regulation, and that the motion did not go far enough.
Mr. King observed that there might be great danger in requiring landed property as a qualification since it would exclude the monied interest, whose aids may be essential in particular emergencies to the public safety.
Mr. Dickenson. was agst. any recital of qualifications in the Constitution. It was impossible to make a compleat one, and a partial one would by implication tie up the hands of the Legislature from supplying the omissions, The best defence lay in the freeholders who were to elect the Legislature. Whilst this Source should remain pure, the public interest would be safe. If it ever should be corrupt, no little expedients would repel the danger. He doubted the policy of interweaving into a Republican constitution a veneration for wealth. He had always understood that a veneration for poverty & virtue, were the objects of republican encouragement. It seemed improper that any man of merit should be subjected to disabilities in a Republic where merit was understood to form the great title to public trust, honors & rewards.
Mr Gerry if property be one object of Government, provisions for securing it can not be improper.
Mr. < Madison > moved to strike out the word landed, before the word, "qualifications". If the proposition sd. be agreed to be wished the Committee to be at liberty to report the best criterion they could devise. Landed possessions were no certain evidence of real wealth. Many enjoyed them to a great extent who were more in debt than they were worth. The unjust laws of the States had proceeded more from this class of men, than any others. It had often happened that men who had acquired landed property on credit, got into the Legislatures with a view of promoting an unjust protection agst. their Creditors. In the next place, if a small quantity of land should be made the standard. it would be no security.--if a large one, it would exclude the proper representatives of those classes of Citizens who were not landholders. It was politic as well as just that the interests & rights of every class should be duty represented & understood in the public Councils. It was a provision every where established that the Country should be divided into districts & representatives taken from each, in order that the Legislative Assembly might equally understand & sympathise, with the rights of the people in every part of the Community. It was not less proper that every class of Citizens should have an opportunity of making their rights be felt & understood in the public Councils. The three principle classes into which our citizens were divisible, were the landed the commercial, & the manufacturing. The 2d. & 3rd. class, bear as yet a small proportion to the first. The proportion however will daily increase. We see in the populous Countries in Europe now, what we shall be hereafter. These classes understand much less of each others interests & affairs, than men of the same class inhabiting different districts. It is particularly requisite therefore that the interests of one or two of them should not be left entirely to the care, or the impartiality of the third. This must be the case if landed qualifications should be required; few of the mercantile, and scarcely any of the manufacturing class, chusing whilst they continue in business to turn any part of their Stock into landed property. For these reasons he wished if it were possible that some other criterion than the mere possession of land should be devised. He concurred with Mr. Govr. Morris in thinking that qualifications in the Electors would be much more effectual than in the elected. The former would discriminate between real & ostensible property in the latter; But he was aware of < the difficulty of > forming any uniform standard that would suit the different circumstances & opinions prevailing in the different States.
Mr. Govr Morris 2ded. the motion.
On the Question for striking out "landed"
N. H. ay. Mas. ay. Ct. ay N. J. ay. Pa. ay. Del. ay. Md. no Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. [Ayes--10; noes--1.]
On Question on 1st. part of Col. Masons proposition as to qualification of property & citizenship" < as so amended >
N. H. ay. Masts. ay. Ct. no. N. J. ay. Pa. no. Del. no. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. [Ayes--8; noes--3.]
"The 2d. part, for disqualifying debtors, and persons having unsettled accounts", being under consideration
Mr. Carrol moved to strike out "having unsettled accounts"
Mr. Ghorum seconded the motion; observing that it would put the commercial & manufacturing part of the people on a worse footing than others as they would be most likely to have dealings with the public.
Mr. L-- Martin. if these words should be struck out, and the remaining words concerning debtors retained, it will be the interest of the latter class to keep their accounts unsettled as long as possible.
Mr. Wilson was for striking them out. They put too much power in the hands of the Auditors, who might combine with rivals in delaying settlements in order to prolong the disqualifications of particular men. We should consider that we are providing a Constitution for future generations, and not merely for the peculiar circumstances of the moment. The time has been, and will again be when the public safety may depend on the voluntary aids of individuals which will necessarily open accts. with the public, and when such accts. will be a characteristic of patriotism. Besides a partial enumeration of cases will disable the Legislature from disqualifying odious & dangerous characters.
Mr. Langdon was for striking out the whole clause for the reasons given by Mr Wilson. So many Exclusions he thought too would render the system unacceptable to the people.
Mr. Gerry. If the argumts. used to day were to prevail, we might have a Legislature composed of public debtors, pensioners, placemen & contractors. He thought the proposed qualifications would be pleasing to the people. They will be considered as a security agst unnecessary or undue burdens being imposed on them < He moved to add "pensioners" to the disqualified characters which was negatived.
N. H. no Mas. ay. Con. no. N.J. no. Pa. no. Del no Maryd. ay. Va. no. N. C. divided. S. C. no. Geo. ay.> [Ayes--3; noes--7; divided--1.]
Mr. Govr. Morris The last clause, relating to public debtors will exclude every importing merchant. Revenue will be drawn it is foreseen as much as possible, from trade. Duties of course will be bonded. and the Merchts. will remain debtors to the public. He repeated that it had not been so much the fault of individuals as of the public that transactions between them had not been more generally liquidated & adjusted. At all events to draw from our short & scanty experience rules that are to operate through succeeding ages, does not savour much of real wisdom.
On question for striking out "persons having unsettled accounts with the U. States."
N. H. ay. Mas. ay. Ct. ay. N. J. no. Pa. ay. Del. ay. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no. [Ayes--9; noes--2.]
Mr. Elseworth was for disagreeing to the remainder of the clause disqualifying public debtors; and for leaving to the wisdom of the Legislature and the virtue of the Citizens, the task of providing agst. such evils. Is the smallest as well largest debtor to be excluded? Then every arrear of taxes will disqualify. Besides how is it to be known to the people when they elect who are or are not public debtors. The exclusion of pensioners & placemen in Engd is founded on a consideration not existing here. As persons of that sort are dependent on the Crown, they tend to increase its influence.
Mr. Pinkney sd. he was at first a friend to the proposition, for the sake of the clause relating to qualifications of property; but he disliked the exclusion of public debtors; it went too far. It wd. exclude persons who had purchased confiscated property or should purchase Western territory of the public, and might be some obstacle to the sale of the latter.
On the question for agreeing to the clause disqualifying public debtors
N. H. no. Mas-no. Ct. no. N-J. no. Pa. no. Del. no. Md. no. Va. no. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. ay. [Ayes--2; noes--9.]
The < proceedings since monday last were referred unanimously to the > Come. of detail, < and the Convention then unamously > Adjourned till Monday. Augst. 6. that < the > Come. of detail < might > have time to prepare & report the Constitution:
MADISON Friday Augst. 10. in Convention
Art. VI. sect. 2. taken up.
Mr. Pinkney-- The Committee as he had conceived were instructed to report the proper qualifications of property for the members of the Natl. Legislature; instead of which they have referred the task to the Natl. Legislature itself. Should it be left on this footing, the first Legislature will meet without any particular qualifications of property; and if it should happen to consist of rich men they might fix such such qualifications as may be too favorable to the rich; if of poor men, an opposite extreme might be run into. He was opposed to the establishment of an undue aristocratic influence in the Constitution but he thought it essential that the members of the Legislature, the Executive, and the Judges--should be possessed of competent property to make them independent & respectable. It was prudent when such great powers were to be trusted to connect the tie of property with that of reputation in securing a faithful administration. The Legislature would have the fate of the Nation put into their hands. The President would also have a very great influence on it. The Judges would have not only important causes between Citizen & Citizen but also where foreigners are concerned. They will even be the Umpires between the U. States and individual States as well as between one State & another. Were he to fix the quantum of property which should be required, he should not think of less than one hundred thousand dollars for the President, half of that sum for each of the Judges, and in like proportion for the members of the Natl. Legislature. He would however leave the sums blank. His motion was that the President of the U. S. the Judges, and members of the Legislature should be required to swear that they were respectively possessed of a clear unincumbered Estate to the amount of -- in the case of the President, &c &c--
Mr. Rutlidge seconded the motion; observing, that the Committee had reported no qualifications because they could not agree on any among themselves, being embarrassed by the danger on side of displeasing the people by making them < high >, and on the other of rendering them nugatory by making them low. Mr. Elseworth. The different circumstances of different parts of the U. S. and the probable difference between the present and future circumstances of the whole, render it improper to have either uniform or fixed qualifications. Make them so high as to be useful in the S. States, and they will be inapplicable to the E. States. Suit them to the latter, and they will serve no purpose in the former. In like manner what may be accommodated to the existing State of things among us, may be very inconvenient in some future state of them. He thought for these reasons that it was better to leave this matter to the Legislative discretion than to attempt a provision for it in the Constitution.
Doctr Franklin expressed his dislike of every thing that tended to debase the spirit of the common people. If honesty was often the companion of wealth, and if poverty was exposed to peculiar temptation, it was not less true that the possession of property increased the desire of more property- Some of the greatest rogues he was ever acquainted with, were the richest rogues. We should remember the character which the Scripture requires in Rulers, that they should be men hating covetousness- This Constitution will be much read and attended to in Europe, and if it should betray a great partiality to the rich- will not only hurt us in the esteem of the most liberal and enlightened men there, but discourage the common people from removing to this Country.
The Motion of Mr. Pinkney was rejected by so general a no, that the States were not called.
JOURNAL Monday August 20th. 1787.
It was moved and seconded to refer the following propositions to the Committee of five.
That the Committee be directed to report qualifications for the President of the United-States -- and a mode for trying the supreme Judges in cases of impeachment.
MADISON Monday August 20 -- in Convention.
Mr. Pinkney submitted to the House, in order to be referred to the Committee of detail, the following propositions --
Mr Gerry moved "that the Committee be instructed to report proper qualifications for the President, and a mode of trying < the Supreme > Judges < in cases of > impeachment.
JOURNAL Wednesday August 22nd 1787.
The honorable Mr Rutledge, from the Committee to whom sundry propositions were referred on the 18 and 20th instant, informed the House that the Committee were prepared to report -- he then read the report in his place -- and the same, being delivered in at the Secretary's table, was again read throughout, and is as follows
The Committee report that in their opinion the following additions should be made to the report now before the Convention vizt
at the end of the 1st section 10 article add
"he shall be of the age of thirty five years, and a Citizen "of the United States, and shall have been an Inhabitant "thereof for Twenty one years"
George Washington to John Jay, September 2, 1787
Philadelphia, September 2, 1787.
I thank you for the hints contained in your letter, and with best wishes for Mrs. Jay, and great Affection for yourself I am, etc.
JOURNAL Tuesday September 4th
The honorable Mr Brearley from the Committee of eleven informed the House that the Committee were prepared to report partially-- He then read the report in his place; it was afterwards delivered in at the Secretary's table -- and was again read: and is as follows.
"The Committee of Eleven to whom sundry resolutions &c were referred on the 31st. of August, report that in their opinion the following additions and alterations should be made to the Report before the Convention, viz
Sect. 2. No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the U. S. at the time of the adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the office of President: nor shall any Person be elected to that office, who shall be under the age of 35 years, and who has not been in the whole, at least 14 years a resident within the U. S.
MADISON Friday Sepr. 7. 1787. In Convention
The < section 2 .>(see Sepr. 4)
requiring that the President should be a natural-born Citizen, &c & have been resident for fourteen years, & be thirty five years of age, was agreed to nem: con:
Proceedings of Convention Referred to the Committee of Style and Arrangement
ARTICLE X
Sect. 2. No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the U. S. at the time of the adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the office of President: nor shall any Person be elected to that office, who shall be under the age of 35 years, and who has not been in the whole, at least 14 years a resident within the U. S.
Report of Committee of Style
ARTICLE II.
Sect. 1
lang;(d)rang; No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall be eligible to the office of president; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.
THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES
Article. II.
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
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