Posted on 11/21/2004 8:22:34 PM PST by ETERNAL WARMING
Bush Says Immigration Reform Coming In 2nd Term Asia-Pacific Summit Comes To An End
POSTED: 1:27 pm EST November 21, 2004 UPDATED: 1:44 pm EST November 21, 2004
SANTIAGO, Chile -- President George W. Bush has told his Mexican counterpart he campaigned for re-election on immigration reform and is ready to push it in a second term.
AP George W. Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin wear traditional Chilean ponchos during the APEC summit in Santiago, Chile.
The president met with Vicente Fox just before they and other Pacific Rim leaders sat down for a second day of talks in Chile.
Bush has proposed a guest worker program that he insists is not an amnesty for undocumented Mexicans. But the idea was shelved after 9/11, and still faces sizable opposition in Congress.
The Asia-Pacific summit in Chile ended Sunday with a call for new steps to promote free trade -- and to fight terror.
President Bush and the other 20 leaders are urging that negotiators wrap up a new world trade deal as quickly as possible. And they're promising a series of measures aimed at protecting food supplies, airlines and other potential terrorist targets.
Those items were in a final communique read by Chilean President Ricardo Lagos, who thanked the leaders for working to ensure the region's economies grow -- and all their people benefit.
Bush has a round of talks with Lagos later Sunday, followed by a joint news conference and dinner. He heads home to Texas Monday with a stopover in Colombia.
I think you'll find that whenever a valid survey is taken, voters overwhelmingly are fed up with the loss of jobs, the degradation of the value of citizenship, the decline of our social and cultural fiber, the impact on our environment, and the draining of our financial resources for programs that support services.
Add that to the fact that GWB got his mandate from conservative voters in conservative districts.
Education
Financial resources impacted by the cost of educating invader children
The economy
Many invaders aren't paying taxes. US citizens get lower paying (or no jobs), need a government handout instead of making a positive financial contribution to the economy.
Terrorism
And, the best way to protect us from terror at home is to protect our borders. I'd much rather have our troops protecting US borders than causing a situation in Iraq which is causing a lot of angry Muslims.
Health care
Health care has been stretched by medical needs of the invasion. It's money being used as a subsidy for cheap labor rather than providing support for the medical services we need. You've seen the articles about health providers having to close because they have been bankrupted by these people who don't have benefits and don't belong in this country, haven't you?
The situation in Iraq
And the fact that people don't really like that war at all, and those that are aware that Sadam didn't plan 911 and didn't have WMDs would want us to undo the damage done there as much as possible, and leave
Taxes
A lot of which go to subsidizing this cheap labor source.
The federal budget deficit
Read previous answer
Foreign affairs
People would rather we tend to problems at home, which have as their core the invasion.
The environment
It makes no sense to have people flooding into the most wasteful nation on earth.
Corporate corruption
A source of cheap labor that undermines US worker benefits and opportunities isn't just corporate corruption, it's government supported corporate corruption. It's easy enough to fix. Fine, confiscate property, and don't allow government bidding to those who hire those who shouldn't be legally working here.
I wonder if illegal entry and residence in the US were even on the list of concerns. Besides that, you're arguing from the converse. What percentage would say the are opposed to the situation if they were asked the question directly?
In other words he didn't campaign on the issue.
ping
Show me campaign speeches where he promoted his "guest worker" (amnesty by stages) program.
He didn't. He put that one away until AFTER conservatives elected him
Hehehe.....
We had our promised ONE TIME ONLY amnesty in 86, now we expect our immigration laws to be enforced.
As long as Republicans are anti-gay and anti-abortion, the conservative vote is locked up.
yeah and not only will YOU be out of a job in 4 years but so will the disgusting GOP members who vote for your BS plan
No we haven't. The only effort expended by our government has been to aid and abet this secular invasion of our country.
The federal government refuses to provide the necessary resources to protect our borders. Refuses to enforce its immigration laws on employers of illegals. Refuses to deport known illegal aliens.
Then on the "proactive" side what does our federal and state governments do? Why they provide illegal aliens with welfare, food stamps, subsided schooling, subsided housing, free downpayments for homes, free medical care, virtually every social subsidy available to citizens and then some--all on the dime of American Taxpayers. And to top it off Bush is allowing illegal aliens to pile into our social security system while pursuing an Open Borders Amnesty plan with Mexico! What a Guy huh?
The only trying involved here is our governments' efforts to undermine and destroy the America's cultural underpinnings.
Secular???? As opposed to Religious?
There are forces at work here that all of you on the "anti-immigration"side refuse to acknowledge or even understand.
it seems in your case you have rationalized it into a secular invasion.
The forces that stand in the way are numerous, not the least of which is need that can be found on both sides of the equation.
When this combination exists, it is unlikely that this situation can ever be addressed without true compromises being made.
But what the hell do I know! I have only been watching it for 30 years.
I don't think waiting another 30 is wise.
"Opposed" to religious? I think you mean "as in" Religious but--No--"Secular" as in "long-standing".
There are forces at work here that all of you on the "anti-immigration"side refuse to acknowledge or even understand.
Nice dodge there. Resorting to superfluous, undefined platitudes is no substitute for reasoned argument. But let me take a wild guess here that the "forces" you are referring to are the supposedly inexorable "forces" of global economics which, in your view, trump sovereignty, national borders, and the whole idea of a nation state’s self-determination to charter its own course.
Well, it may come as a surprise to you, but them "forces" as you say have been “around” for awhile and are nothing new--trendy free trade ideology to the side.
Somehow, Some Way, America managed to grow from a tiny New England colony of Great Britain into the most prosperous and powerful nation in the history of mankind without the "help" of "forces" that "demand" a massive, uninvited, uncontrolled illegal alien invasion of our nation. America for more than 200 years managed to protect its sovereignty, control immigration, control its borders; yet somehow managed to build cities, build industries, invent most of the modern day inventions, push technology and science to the limits, fight wars, build roads, create the highest standard of living in the world all without the "need" to be invaded because of “forces”.
America also actually managed to trade with the world, no make that dominate world trade, without being taken to the cleaners by mercantilist nations. I mean it is amazing what America was able to achieve without open borders, massive 3rd world immigration and One Way industry destroying, job exporting trade agreements.
Yet, Magically, somehow in the last 30 years, all the factors that came together to help create the greatest country on earth are suddenly null and void. It’s a New World we are told by a comfy, overpaid class of Beltway politicians that feed off the incomes of Americans many of whom never worked a day of their life in the private sector.
The forces that stand in the way are numerous, not the least of which is need that can be found on both sides of the equation.
In further attempting to decode your opaque doublespeak: The only forces that “stand in the way” is the lot of Insular Beltway Politicians who are nothing more than bagmen for special interests. Interests that are diametrically opposed to the whole concept of America as an independent and sovereign nation if there is a buck it for them or a seat in the halls of power. And the politicians can be voted out of office. At least the last time I checked.
When this combination exists, it is unlikely that this situation can ever be addressed without true compromises being made. But what the hell do I know! I have only been watching it for 30 years. I don't think waiting another 30 is wise.
Good question—and yes why wait? Why not open up our borders to the world and let everyone in because that is the ultimate conclusion of your “forces”. Is that not true? If not, why not? And why be partial to the Mexicans. The "forces" won’t end when America incorporates most of Mexico into the U.S. What about the Chinese, Russians, Vietnamese, all the peoples of Africa and the Middle East? Aren't they part of the inexorable forces you allude to?
Oh btw, you know that little fast growing country called China? Um, they kinda think like we "used to" think in America. They don’t like to be invaded. They like trade agreements where the economic benefits inure to them and they certainly don’t buy off on open borders, mass immigration and one way “free trade”. In fact they are just down right xenophobic. Silly them. I guess the “forces” don’t apply to China.
May the force be with you—you’ll need it.
I could go through your rant and refute each and every point you made, but there is no need to.
Boiled down to it's essence, it reads like this............You claim America was built by Americans who now find their property at risk from all those stupid rebellious immigrants.
Well I got some news. America was built by those pesky people. They were just as unwelcome by some then as they are now.
The more things change, the more they appear the same in this respect.
Now what I just illustrated is the primary reason for our courts reactions to immigration controls and they will, I assure you, continue. No matter what you attempt to do.
Our economic needs are just another nail in the pro-immigration framework that created America. When combined together, these forces, as I called them, stand firmly in the way of any attempts to eliminate illegal immigrants, so some other more creative methods must be used that take advantage of these forces to mitigate the problem and keep it from becoming fracturing social nightmare that could severely damage the countries integrity.
That is what the Bush proposal is all about.
Continued resistance to achieving some modicum of sensible controls on this problem only assure that it will continue at full acceleration and intensity.
You made plenty of accusations in your diatribe to me. I will not respond in kind. Although I have a truck load of them I could use.
Its just not my style. Dodging and double speak is ridiculous. I am in your face with logic that you can't handle.
As if conservatives had no idea about Bush "guest worker" proposal.....
America was built by Illegal Aliens? Oh, I see. You mean the *LEGAL* immigrants that our government "invited" mostly from Europe to Legally immigrate to America. Do you know the difference between Legal and Illegal immigration? I didn't get that impression from the above.
Now what I just illustrated is the primary reason for our courts reactions to immigration controls and they will, I assure you, continue. No matter what you attempt to do.
What did you illustrate? I'm still looking for it. Let me again take a wild guess. You think the courts in America are eternally all-powerful and can't be reigned in even with new leadership in the WH and Congress. Is that what you are driving at? Well, you might be a bit surprised what can happen when Citizens vote out enough politicians in Congress and the WH and replace them with people that put the interests of America and Americans first instead of dead last. It won’t be lost on many judges.
Our economic needs are just another nail in the pro-immigration framework that created America. When combined together, these forces, as I called them, stand firmly in the way of any attempts to eliminate illegal immigrants, so some other more creative methods must be used that take advantage of these forces to mitigate the problem and keep it from becoming fracturing social nightmare that could severely damage the countries integrity.
"It" already is a “fracturing social nightmare that is damaging our country's integrity” and “it” is only going to get worse the longer this invasion of our country goes on. And it’s funny you should mention Creative Methods. Every time I hear that term, like in “creative accounting” or “creative financing” it invariably involves the method or should I say "art" of hiding or forestalling the REAL COSTS of something in flowery misleading language.
Sorry--I don't share in your opinion that amnesty is the solution. It only compounds the existing problem and rewards people for breaking our laws. I still believe that "we the people" will in the end decide what kind of country we want to be in, not a ruling class of self-serving arrogant politicians.
And I note that you didn't address my question on how America managed to become the most prosperous, powerful nation on earth without being inundated with millions of illegal aliens. Can you explain how being invaded my tens of millions of unskilled, uneducated 3rd world peasants, which costs American Taxpayers billions of dollars each a year and retards the incentives for automating manual labor, is in the interests of American Citizens? How does this do anything but place an ever-greater tax burden on our citizens and drag down the American Culture? Especially since illegals are flowing into America at a far greater rate than they can be assimilated. Hell, just take a good look at the LA region of Southern CA. Is that the kind of America you want to live in?
That is what the Bush proposal is all about.
No, what the Bush proposal is all about is a pay back to his corporate backers and cronies that peddle in illegal labor and/or benefit from the population explosion it creates. It doesn't help that many a Oil Baron, some of whom are connected to the Bush Family have had their eyes on the biggest treasure of all in Mexico, namely Mexico's nationalized Oil company “Pemex”. Think Fox is going to up open up Pemex to American investment if Bush does not acquiesce to his open borders demands?....
Continued resistance to achieving some modicum of sensible controls on this problem only assure that it will continue at full acceleration and intensity.
No, actually you have it 100% in the reverse. What Bush is actually offering is an Illegal Alien Amnesty on top of vastly increased immigration from Mexico while retaining the black market in Illegal Labor with restrictions on the amnesty. The sum effect of this misguided proposal is that it rewards illegal immigration, throws open our border to Mexico, and leaves the black market in illegal labor intact. In other words it only adds greatly to the existing disaster. This is to say nothing of how this amnesty plan is a slap in the face to all the immigrants that follow the law and wait patiently for years to legally enter America.
The only "sensible controls" to illegal immigration are the enforcement of the immigration laws already on the books and greatly ramped up border control. That alone will take care of most of the problem. Trouble is, Bush is not interested in doing anything but escalating the Mexican Invasion.
I am in your face with logic that you can't handle.
Ok Big Guy if you say so. You're COLD LOGIC all the way. LOL.
Sure, I'm sure that it will work. [sarcasm)
The courts are setting aside all the attempts to deport illegals. The courts cannot be controlled by congress unless it has the nuts to change the Constitution. And that will not happen.
All prior law and precedent is largely immigrant friendly. Even back then, the problems continued to present themselves are worsen even as efforts were made to tighten the borders and now is no different from then. Nothing has ever worked. Why keep beating that dead horse?
Illegals have protections granted by the courts. They cannot be taken away.
Businesses and citizens have protections as well, and they cannot be taken away.
We have millions of illegals, and few courts to process their appeals. More courts can be asked for, but they will not be funded for years if ever. More beds are needed for detention, but any increases in assets to process illegals cannot exceed the flow, or the numbers and the desires to get here, nor the needs of a growing economy the employs them.
Liberals want a free and open border, I do not. What I want is sensible reforms taking into account the desires and needs that fuel the problem, and getting in exchange new enforcement mechanisms that control the problem from the demand side.
Illegal immigration laws are currently as useless as those attempting to control illegal drugs. Neither one attempts to control the problem from the demand side, and as long as demand exists, the ways and means will be found to fill it.
I gotta say, that of all the issues in the last election, this one barely made it's presence known. There is no real concerns nationwide, and there should be, but if you refuse to compromise on this. I can guarantee that you will never see anything done at all. Nothing!
The pro immigration forces will line up on the other side and all your rhetorical flourishes will be lost in the wind.
I plan to back Bush on his work permit idea, and participate in the writing of new laws and code that gains control of this by allowing workers to be documented as ex-pats. Documented in such a way that their unknown employers are now known and taxes,and social security contributions are finally collected.
So that any Mexican without a permit can voluntarily return to Mexico and apply, or be apprehended, and be taken to temporary camps and processed or sent back, and that those who plan to come in the future understand that without documentation they will not find work and their is no sense in coming without it.
This way, the 100s of thousands of illegal employers are brought in line and along with them their employees and future employees.
Are there many questions? Yes
Are there 100s of details to be worked out? Yes
Is there going to be one hell of a fight over this? Yes
But the alternative, as I have been trying to say repeatedly is that nothing is done that works or ever will work.
Current law is impotent. Border security, while getting better, cannot do anything about the 10,000,000 strong underground economy that the illegals operate with impunity within.Nothing done in the last 30 years has had any effect and I think it is time to acknowledge that we have totally failed, and it cannot be fixed and made to work.
When you can do the same at 1800 yds with a .50, that's when the bad guys are going to take notice.....that you have some nice glass.
www.numbersusa.com
Free fax service. USE IT. Get everyone you know who wants to protect our borders to use it. This service is putting real HEAT on Washington fat cats.
Like GW and loved Reagan but we are NOT going to ket another Reagan amnesty slip by. Reagan pulled this in his second term. It "ain't" gonna happen this time.
That’s a lot of self-serving defeatist nonsense Again, up until 30-40 years ago America had little problem controlling its borders and enforcing its immigration laws. Ike in fact deported a million illegals, by force, with his operation Wetback. What you offer is a lot of excuses for doing the wrong thing.
Just 2 months ago some 15 BICE agents rounded up 220 illegal aliens off the streets in CA and were about to deport them when Bush's BICE guy, Hutchinson came rushing in, not under pressure from the courts, but from ONE CA Hispanic democratic and instructed the agents to release them all. Just think of what a change in leadership will do here?
And whatever series of perverse court decisions in the last 30 years rewarding illegals extra-rights that has hindered the enforcement of some immigration laws can most certainly be reversed if enough conservative justices are appointed to the higher (and lower) courts.
This will however take wholesale changes for the better in Congress and the WH because the current leadership, as I have noted, are for the status quo, and will never IMO put the interests of American Citizens ahead of their back door campaign supporters. So, in this sense, there is only duplication of the current roadblocks to real immigration reform. It’s not all the courts. And it certainly is not the courts that have left and continue to leave our borders Wide Open to this invasion. It’s Bush, and only Bush that is responsible for this.
Why keep beating that dead horse?
The only dead horse being beaten here is your persistent false claims that America has never been able to control its immigration policies and their enforcement, when of course, we did a very good job of it for better than 200 years. And it only came off track in the mid-1960s with the enactment of Ted “The Swimmer Kennedy's 1986 Immigration Act which opened up the floodgates to 3rd world immigration for the first time in a big way.
Businesses and citizens have protections as well, and they cannot be taken away.
Yes, and chief among them is the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness---all of which are greatly harmed and diminished with the incredible damage illegal immigration has inflicted on this nation its people.
I did not infer anything like that, and I said the courts are just one on the reasons immigration law is not working.
I also mentioned the non-participation of States and local LEO.
What are you gonna do, wave a friggin magic wand and make it all go away?
The best way to defeat a opponent who has you bested in every way is to use his own strengths and momentum to control what he does.
What Bush suggested as the core of a yet unwritten plan is exactly that. The details have not even been touched due the the BS coming from the anti-amnesty bunch and it makes me ill to think that somehow we will have to survive the status quo as a direct result.
You blame bush and crony-isms, but you ignore the complexity of this problem and the simplicity of his solution and the far reaching effects it could have if written properly and implemented with the same zeal that you use to fight it.
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