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Creation theory gets boost (Australia)
The Age (Melbourne) ^ | 18th November 2004 | Misha Schubert

Posted on 11/17/2004 7:13:45 PM PST by naturalman1975

Schools should teach the biblical creation story alongside evolutionary theory, Family First chairman Peter Harris said yesterday.

While his fledgling party - arising out of the Assemblies of God church - had no formal policy on school curriculums, Mr Harris said his personal view was that children should be taught both perspectives.

Asked at the National Press Club in Canberra whether he supported both perspectives being taught, he said: "Of course we'd like to see a balanced approach to education, and... all options and all viewpoints, world viewpoints, should be put forward and people should be entitled to make their own decisions," he said.

Mr Harris said his party had raised $1.2 million in donations for the federal election, but had none from the United States, where the religious right has become a political force.

There was diverse support for Mr Harris' views on teaching creationism alongside evolution.

Australian National University anthropologist Alan Thorne said there was nothing wrong with putting both views to students.

"A balanced view is better than an extreme view in education," he said. "From a scientific perspective, it would be very silly indeed to claim God went around poking fossils into rocks, (but) the two can be quite compatible. There's no reasons why they can't address different aspects of our development."

Labor's federal education spokeswoman Jenny Macklin said: "All young people should have an understanding of a range of religious beliefs."

But acting Australian Education Union Victorian president Ann Taylor warned schools should distinguish between established scientific fact and philosophical or religious belief.


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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1 posted on 11/17/2004 7:13:45 PM PST by naturalman1975
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To: naturalman1975

Hooo, boy. I got in here early!


2 posted on 11/17/2004 7:17:07 PM PST by narby
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To: PatrickHenry

The whole world is going nuts ping.


3 posted on 11/17/2004 7:17:56 PM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: PatrickHenry

ping.


4 posted on 11/17/2004 7:17:59 PM PST by narby
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To: naturalman1975
It just amazes me that Creationists get away with using the normal conflicts in science to poke holes in Evolution. But they want to replace it with what? 6000 year history? Or is it Evolution with a designer? Which designer? Where is he? Where is evidence of a designer except by poking holes in Evolution?

Creationists have no leg to stand on to criticize Science, because they can't get their story straight on exactly what it is they believe.

My personal belief is that God used Evolution as His preferred toolbox. I see no conflicts. But I do see damage done to the conservative movement by Creationists. And I also see damage done to some faithful people who participate in this Evolution argument and decide that there is no God.

Religious Creationists and IDers are being stupid to disbelieve Evolution in the first place because there is a huge amount of evidence to support it. And they're being stupid because it harms their stated goal of bringing people to God. They're Double stupid.

5 posted on 11/17/2004 7:22:06 PM PST by narby
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To: narby
"A thing is not proved just because no one has ever questioned it. What has never been gone into impartially has never been properly gone into. Hence scepticism is the first step toward truth. It must be applied generally, because it is the touchstone."

   - Denis Diderot (1713 - 1784)

6 posted on 11/17/2004 7:38:59 PM PST by quantim (Victory is not relative, it is absolute.)
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To: narby
Yep. You're right. God got it all wrong and really messed up with the Scriptures. He just doesn't know what He is talking about.

We should listen to the Darwinists instead. They have their own pet theories, none of which are provable and are constantly changing. They certainly know what they are talking about.

7 posted on 11/17/2004 7:39:21 PM PST by Gritty ("Bush's redneck America is a more reliable long-term bet than enlighted Europe-Mark Steyn)
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To: narby

Once circumnavigation of the globe occurred, the religious zealots caught on to the idea that the world was no longer flat. It took that sort of proving to get many to question their understood truth that the world was flat.

I'm curious; what would have to be proven or disproven for you to question evolution? Or is it possible to shake your belief in evolution? This question requires no response, just a thought on the topic.

Thanks for your attention.


8 posted on 11/17/2004 7:46:26 PM PST by TitansAFC (Al Gonzales for SCOTUS? Let's just nominate Arlen Specter.)
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To: narby

"Religious Creationists and IDers are being stupid to disbelieve Evolution in the first place because there is a huge amount of evidence to support it. And they're being stupid because it harms their stated goal of bringing people to God. They're Double stupid."


Your comments just proved that people do not evolve to higher levels.


9 posted on 11/17/2004 7:55:45 PM PST by worldclass
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To: narby
"My personal belief is that God used Evolution as His preferred toolbox. I see no conflicts..."

Look again. Two opposing views. One built on chance the other on intent.
10 posted on 11/17/2004 8:02:38 PM PST by Mulch
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To: Gritty
Yep. You're right. God got it all wrong and really messed up with the Scriptures. He just doesn't know what He is talking about. We should listen to the Darwinists instead. They have their own pet theories, none of which are provable and are constantly changing. They certainly know what they are talking about.

And just how many scriptures teach about how God made life? Emphasis on the "how". Grand total, there can't be more than a few hundred words in Genesis about the beginning of the world. How definitive is that?

Combine this with the undeniable fact that there are dozens, perhaps hundreds of different religious denominations that follow the Bible. None of them can agree on exactly what the Bible says about a great many important things.

Of course they can't agree on Creation either. "Proof", if you're ready to accept it, that humans cannot know exactly what God is saying in the Bible. So you're so certain that Evolution isn't allowed in Genesis? I respectfully disagree.

The fact is that many denominations do believe Evolution is how "God did it".

This isn't a fight nearly so much between the faithful people and non-faithful, so much as it is a doctrinal fight like those over many other details of religious belief.

It's just that the danger is that if you listen to the Creationists who say that you must believe their way, or else you have believe that God doesn't exist at all. The sad fact is that some will choose the second. And that's not Evolution or Science's fault. That's the fault of stubborn Creationists and IDers who are being stupid by driving faithful people away from God.

Your criticism didn't touch on my point that believers are being driven away because of this unnecessary fight. I'll assume you agree with me about that.

11 posted on 11/17/2004 8:08:59 PM PST by narby
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To: TitansAFC
I'm curious; what would have to be proven or disproven for you to question evolution? Or is it possible to shake your belief in evolution? This question requires no response, just a thought on the topic.

No problem. I'm glad to respond.

It would take a huge amount of contrary evidence in many different disciplines. I'm sure you're about to send me one of the many of the list-o-links on Creationism, or ID, or whichever non-Evolutionary bent you happen to be on. You needn't bother. Been there, done that.

The fact is that there are a great many disagreements between denominations over religious issues. Important issues. This is proof that humans can't possibly read the same Bible and understand the same things.

Religious people have no leg to stand on vs. Evolution when it comes to poking holes in each others understanding of the world. There is far more agreement among scientists over Evolution than there is among religious people about God.

That's not to say that I'm not a believer myself. But I am humble enough not to pontificate about EXACTLY what some chapter in the Bible means.

Particularly when the subject of Creation isn't that important to begin with.

12 posted on 11/17/2004 8:17:18 PM PST by narby
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To: worldclass
Your comments just proved that people do not evolve to higher levels.

What do you mean, exactly?

13 posted on 11/17/2004 8:18:12 PM PST by narby
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To: Mulch
Look again. Two opposing views. One built on chance the other on intent.

I believe God created "chance". Therefore, he created Evolution.

Please read my other posts about how this Evolution fight damages the faith of some people who come to believe that God doesn't exist.

A Christian who builds a stumbling block that can lead someone away from God truly is stupid. Completely aside from their views on Science.

14 posted on 11/17/2004 8:22:02 PM PST by narby
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To: narby

Don't have the links...wouldn't send 'em.

Just a question of thought, that's all. It usually does take pretty strong evidence to shatter someone's belief system, whether it be scientific or theological.

After we determine our beliefs, we tend to doubt or dismiss evidence to the contrary, as is our nature. Evolutionists and Creationists share this in common.


15 posted on 11/17/2004 8:26:15 PM PST by TitansAFC (Al Gonzales for SCOTUS? Let's just nominate Arlen Specter.)
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To: TitansAFC
After we determine our beliefs, we tend to doubt or dismiss evidence to the contrary, as is our nature. Evolutionists and Creationists share this in common.

I can't disagree.

So where do you come down on my point that the Creationism/Evolution fight is itself a danger to the faith of some people? Do you agree that some people could decide there is no God because they were forced to chose between Science vs. faith?

16 posted on 11/17/2004 8:34:07 PM PST by narby
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To: narby

I think the majority of people believe in Intelligent Design, or some hybrid thereof (i.e. God used evolution).

Most hard line Creationists (me) or Evolutionists are pretty solidified in their system of beliefs. To answer to question directly, no I do not see a danger in the debate. From a perspective of faith, I say pursue the truth, whatever it may or may not be.

For anyone who has had to address the "Synoptic Problems", the truth sometimes requires more in-depth research than anyone wants to put in during one lifetime. Hence the reason I think most people adhere to some form of the Intelligent Design version of creation.


17 posted on 11/17/2004 8:41:40 PM PST by TitansAFC (Al Gonzales for SCOTUS? Let's just nominate Arlen Specter.)
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To: TitansAFC
From a perspective of faith, I say pursue the truth, whatever it may or may not be.

Even at the cost of the salvation of another? That's cold. About a subject that isn't pivotal to any faith I know of. I'm stunned.

There are so many "truths" that could be studied in the Bible. Yet so many choose this one silly issue that really isn't that important.

You can argue many points in the Bible, pro or con. But if my goal was to destroy religion, this this is the argument that I would start.

I wonder on what side many people who write Creationist/ID publications are really on.

18 posted on 11/17/2004 9:00:48 PM PST by narby
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To: narby
But if my goal was to destroy religion, this this is the argument that I would start.

I lotta people have tried to out think God. Their batting average is .000 .

19 posted on 11/17/2004 9:06:03 PM PST by AndrewC (New Senate rule -- Must vote on all Presidential appointments period certain.)
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To: narby

Believing that we were created by God, instead of evolving by chance, is CENTRAL to Christianity. One who says otherwise is making up a new, novel form of Christianity.


20 posted on 11/17/2004 9:11:53 PM PST by guitarist (commonsense)
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