Man, I know little about combat stuff, but I sure support these guys doing their jobs.And doin' a dam* good job, too, from what I have seen!
Posted on 11/17/2004 3:35:00 PM PST by annyokie
Defending our marine in Fallujah - Wednesday, November 17, 2004 9:30 AM
The media attacks on our marine in Fallujah are more ways to get our soldiers killed. This is a guest blog by a former marine and Navy Seal, Matthew Heidt, whose blog can be found here.
Security Rounds
We're gonna see more on this issue in the near future. Most folks who've served in combat are taking a much more objective view of how things are changing w/re to the Law of Land Warfare than those who have not.
The shots fired at the "unarmed" terrorist in that mosque in Fallujah are called "security rounds." Its a safety issue pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, put a security round in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up "prisoners" and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There's no time to dick around in the target, you clear the space, dump the chumps, and moveon.org. Are Corpsman expected to treat wounded terrorists?
Negative. Hey libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to spend one man minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist, its much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.
By the way, terrorists who chop off civilian's heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses.
UPDATE: Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers. Here is your situation Marine. You just took fire from unlawful combatants shooting from a religious building attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you're in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they're not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these kind of idiots, and like taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fireteam's lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason.
Also, you don't know who or what is in the next room, and you're already speaking English to each other and its loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist that was just shooting at you from a mosque playing possum. What do you do?
You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that's what.
What about the Geneva Conventions and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it. Without even addressing the issues at hand you first thought should be, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Bear in mind that this is a perpetual mindset that in reinforced by experience on a minute by minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary which is a double No No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take "prisoners" because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. No good in Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same... Marines get hurt or die. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.
If you are a veteran then everything I have just written is self evident, if you are not a veteran than at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is not easy, and if you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for war crimes. Be advised, I am not talking to my readers, but if this post gets linked up, I want regular folks to get this message loud and clear.
http://froggyruminations.blogspot.com/
Comment by Lori Kahler
It is also important to note that there have been reports that just five minutes earlier and a block away from this incident, another wounded insurgent blew himself up. He took the life of a marine and severely wounded six other marines who were trying to give aid to this insurgent. Let us not forget that Senator Kerry received a purple heart for a very similar incident, although Kerry shot the boy in the back as he was fleeing. Not only was this marine correct in shooting the wounded insurgent, he was obligated to or risk the death or injury to whole unit.
I find this shocking.
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Only 2 cents a cartridge?
Has Sties got FRAGED yet.
Pretty much covers it. I would NEVER turn my back on a terrorist, percievably unarmed and wounded or not. He did right by snuffing the SOB and shouldn't have been put in the position to protect a mosque that was being used as an enemy fortification anyway. The damned place should have been leveled.
We need to take them on and give them a spanking like Rather got. The internet is more powerful than the mass media.
Man, I know little about combat stuff, but I sure support these guys doing their jobs.And doin' a dam* good job, too, from what I have seen!
that would be my guess. wouldn't put it past them.
In English please.
Got that right - but remember - they also allowed one to remain as President - Dog Clinton - What he gave China and other nations is coming back at us soon - Just hope we have what it takes to answer -
I know we won the election - and should be happy - but we can't wait too long before taking down the major media - I believe we can do it - CBS is way down because of what they tried to do - I suggest some kind of plan to work against the rest of the corrupt media - What ever it takes - They are keeping this nation down in a time of war - No nation needs that -
They(media outlets) are getting nasty - just like in the 1960s - and it must not happen again - in my opinion -
"English "
well, English I think it would be fragged, rather than fraged, as it is the double consonant which goes with the short vowel; and the single consonant which goes with the long vowel.
It is IOW fragged, rhymes with, hmmm.. bagged.
It is Viet Nam era term for what disgruntled troops did to their unpopular LTs -- roll a fragmentation grenade under his bunk . . .
it is not a term of endearment . . .
I'm not talking about what is common sense, or using any sense of perspective. I'm talking about the rules of engagement, i.e. the current law of warfare for servicemembers in Iraq. According to the letter of that law, the Marine engaged the man without sufficient cause.
Quoting the Geneva Conventions, or recounting what pops did in WWII has zero bearing on this. I'm telling you this as someone who was there and knows the score. As reasonable as his actions may have been, the military is very likely going to make a harsh example out of this guy.
That was my guess, but I'm still stymied on "Sties." What, or who, is that? And why would this person be asking me such a question?
"until she's safe"
Bless you for that.
As for the rest, you got me! ;)
>>>>Our soldier did nothing wrong. I don't care what armchair soldier you hear saying he did. He had been shot in the face the day before. He lost a friend the day before.>>>>
If I may say so,it was in the middle of a mop up operations....they could have walked to the injured man and in a matter of seconds,they could have been blasted with the reporter filming.Difficult to see the future is in Iraq.....Our only other choice is to push for the election of an Iraqi President,a strong President,one who will not let our tragedy continue....
If they are still twitching, you shoot them till they stop.
What do they want us to do? Rush to the 'poor wounded terrorist's side" and try to understand why he just fragged your squad?
Shoot the bastard, and make sure he has stopped jerking, or that next 'twitch' might be the pin popping on another grendade clenched firmly between his cheeks.
What is so hard for folks to understand about kill, or be killed in wartime? I just don't get why this is an issue. of course, neither does the USMJ... and that will be the end of it.
I'm not a combat veteran. I hold them several steps up up the ladder from me. I was active duty U. S. Air Force from Feburary 1970 to August 1977. Our guys in Iraq are on my mind twentyfour/seven. I signed the petition, called the Commandant of the USMC and talked with public relations, called both of my Senators. They are Voinich and Dewine. How much they will do I don't know. I hope a lot more people will call them. I will keep after this with any ammunition I think of or find out from all of you.
Did you see what #20 put - and signed it John Q Citizen -
This has nothing to do with lowering the standards to that of a terrorist - but everything to do with fighting a war against those kind of people called "terrorist" and what it takes to stay alive and keep this nation safe from their ilk -
Some people's children - Grrrrr - On the good side - over 4000 people have posted so far and the people with common sense are way ahead of jerks like #20 -
Even EMT's know that you remove the threat first and treat the wounded second. This Marine removed a threat.
ping
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