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Abortion debate becomes clearer as ultrasound images improve
St. Paul Pioneer Press ^ | 11/11/04 | ZEV CHAFETS

Posted on 11/11/2004 1:16:35 PM PST by Caleb1411

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To: Spiff
Agreed. One argument I've been trying lately is that of suicide.

If a woman has the right to abort her child - because it is her body, why do we not accept as reasonable, a person (of sound mind), who wants to commit suicide? Oftentimes we even have a person committed who is having suicidal tendencies.

Why do we not value their "choice" to do what they want with their own body?

(and yes, I understand there is a "death" movement afoot)
21 posted on 11/11/2004 3:12:52 PM PST by jonno (We are NOT a democracy - though we are democratic. We ARE a constitutional republic.)
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Coleus

PING


23 posted on 11/11/2004 3:23:06 PM PST by AuH2ORepublican (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: eccentric
Last night, my daughter, Maggie, mother of a 6 month old and just re-entering the work force, engaged her Dad in debate on just this issue. If a crime of violence is committed against a woman - why is she given license to commit violence against her own child? I was listening from the other room, ready to jump in- but I didn't have to.

Maggie, as a breastfeeding mom, has not had a period yet, and may be pregnant again. She, her husband and baby live with us. It would not be convenient for her to become pregnant again, but I already know what her response, and my response, to another pregnancy would be. When are blessings ever inconvenient?

Strangely, my very liberal husband has only one complaint about our son-in-law. He doesn't "adore" his baby enough.

24 posted on 11/11/2004 3:40:08 PM PST by Dutchgirl (Be still and know that I am God.- Psalm 46:10)
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To: Rammer

You are never going to convince people by visually assaulting them. How much success have libs had with that tactic?


25 posted on 11/11/2004 3:51:01 PM PST by FreeperinRATcage (I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for every thing I do. - R. A. Heinlein)
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To: Caleb1411; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; ...
Bringing Good Things to Life (ULTRASOUND)      Abortion Quotes

Watch GE 3D-4D new Ultrasound Commercial
   Fetuses Can Hear Ultrasound Examinations

New Ultrasound Shows 3-D 'Fetal Portrait     Technology forces us to see that abortions end lives

 10 FALLACIES IN THE ABORTION DEBATE

12 WEEK OLD BABY WALKS IN THE WOMB!

"Studies show that if women can actually see the baby through an ultrasound, they are more likely to carry them to term," she said.

The Womb as Photo Studio  States May Ban Abortion If Roe Overturned

Unborn baby introduces comparison of candidates for President

Partial Birth Abortion Ban Court Transcripts  Foetuses [Fetuses] 'may be conscious long before abortion limit'

ultrasound        Technology gives unborn fetus a 3-D image

Crisis Pregnancy Centers Find Success in Medical Model

The most powerful smiles in the world

26 posted on 11/11/2004 4:14:48 PM PST by Coleus (Abortion and Euthanasia, Don't Democrats just kill ya!)
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Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act, S.2466, H.R. 4420, Take Action, A Fetus Feels Pain
27 posted on 11/11/2004 4:18:07 PM PST by Coleus (Abortion and Euthanasia, Don't Democrats just kill ya!)
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To: cpforlife.org

ping


28 posted on 11/11/2004 5:15:35 PM PST by wisconsinconservative ("The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.")
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To: Coleus

Fighting for the wee ones in Pennsylvania.

29 posted on 11/11/2004 5:28:31 PM PST by firebrand
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To: Caleb1411

Thanks for posting this.


30 posted on 11/11/2004 5:56:14 PM PST by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Caleb1411

"They're going to be used against women," the waitress snapped. She was obviously ready to sacrifice a tip to make a point.

No. Just pictures of what you prefer to arbitrarily murder.


31 posted on 11/11/2004 6:07:34 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: jonno

Most suicides are not persons of sound mind.

I have been a nurse for 20 years and in those years I have taken care of many,many terminal patients. I spent 10 years in ICU.

I have found that those terminal patients that are getting proper pain management and have the proper family support are not suicidal.

Just the opposite, since their life is slipping away and they know it, life becomes more precious.

The period of loosing to a terminal illness is usually one of tremendous spiritual growth. You discover that property isn't so important after all and that people are very important.

Having a terminal illness makes most people want to make their last days very meaningful.

Most suicide attempts by people who are ill happen early after the diagnosis. It happens during one of the stages of dispair when they are very fearful and doubt their ability to go through the experience. It is not a period of sanity.


32 posted on 11/11/2004 6:18:31 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (recycled: Black dogs are my life.)
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To: eccentric
Actually, the wrong of Roe can be pinned squarely upon improper subpreme court fiat ruling that was the antithesis of our founding principles. Allow me to explain further on something you may feel you fully understand already.

The issue of a woman's 'court ruled right' to abortion was claimed as a privacy issue when it was voted through as a self defense reality. How? Because if a pregnancy threatens a woman's life, she has the unalienable right (due to the well established principle of self defense) to terminate such a threat (not necessarily the right to kill another human being innocent of assault, but the subpremes of 1973 skirted that truth by claiming the personhood of the unborn could not be addressed by them; a Federal court just a year before had ruled --stare decesis anyone?-- that there is a human being present from conception onward, but that case was ignored by the subpremes due to it not fitting the mold they were constructing for their illicit activism). Self defense is a standard for action because the first unalienable right is to LIFE, right to LIFE, then liberty, then pursuit of happiness.

Here's the catch though in self defense: if the alive woman has a right to self defense and that right is the basis for the right to terminate a pregnancy, then the alive little one also has a right to LIFE. We pro-lifers have too long allowed the leftists ghouls to skirt this truth and apply 'right to liberty from a pregnancy' for the true right that is the basis of pregnancy termination protected by the subpreme court of 1973 and later in Doe v Bolton, Casey, and the Carhardt horror of recent record. There is no firm precedent for a right to terminate a pregnancy other than self defense, the insane ghost of privacy created with Roe notwithstanding as miss-applied from the eralier Griswald contraception case.

33 posted on 11/11/2004 6:28:08 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Coleus
At 18 weeks you can easily discern fingers and facial features.

What was visible on my ultra sound was...well let's just say I had boys.

34 posted on 11/11/2004 7:03:10 PM PST by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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bump


35 posted on 11/11/2004 7:13:52 PM PST by Diago ("Is dis where I git me uh huttin lie-sense?")
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To: Coleus; Caleb1411; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; ...
Christmas motto: Peace on Earth begins within. Stop Abortion.

I don't understand how people who oppose violence can tolerate abortion.

36 posted on 11/11/2004 8:14:04 PM PST by eccentric (aka baldwidow)
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To: MHGinTN; Coleus; nickcarraway; narses; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; ...

Please let me know if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

37 posted on 11/11/2004 10:31:23 PM PST by cpforlife.org (Birth is one day in the life of a person who is already nine months old.)
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To: kx9088
Congradulations!! Best of wishes to you and your lovely new life!!

One of our daughters is expecting her third child and due to a medical condition, was classified high risk. She was sent to Johns Hopkins. New ultra-sounds are incredible!!

It is a boy and all initial tests seemed to have been wrong; he appears to be healthy.

Once again, CONGRADULATIONS!!
38 posted on 11/11/2004 10:49:56 PM PST by used2BDem (Navy Vet (Navy Mom))
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To: used2BDem

Thanks.

I remember the last ultra-sound they did, at about 32 weeks. The tech was trying to get a good shot of the face and then BLAM! it was as if she was looking right at us.


39 posted on 11/12/2004 5:02:01 AM PST by kx9088
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To: Rammer

I don't like them and neither do the people you are trying to convince. People instead will react warmly to a baby smiling in the womb and see that abortion is wrong.

You can make your point two ways: the softer subtle approach or the ram it down your throat approach (which hasn't worked so far)


40 posted on 11/12/2004 9:46:42 AM PST by BushisTheMan
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