Posted on 11/11/2004 7:16:53 AM PST by SJackson
The Vatican has praised Yasser Arafat as a charismatic leader who struggled to win independence for his people, and repeated its support of a sovereign Palestinian state alongside Israel.
Pope John Paul, who last met Arafat in 2001, retreated into private prayer when he was told of the death of the Palestinian leader earlier on Thursday in Paris, a Vatican source said.
The Pope, who made a historic trip to Israel and the Palestinian territories in 2000, sent a message saying he was particularly close to the Palestinian people "in this hour of sadness".
The 84-year-old Pope's message said he prayed that the "star of harmony" would soon bring peace to the Holy Land and that both Israelis and Palestinians could live "reconciled among themselves as two independent and sovereign states".
Earlier, a statement by the Vatican's chief spokesman called Mr Arafat the "illustrious deceased" and asked God to grant eternal rest to his soul.
"The Holy See joins the pain of the Palestinian people for the passing of President Yasser Arafat. He was a leader of great charisma who loved his people and tried to guide them towards national independence," said the statement by chief spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls.
The official statement was bound to displease Israel because it made no mention of militant attacks, which the Jewish state blamed on Mr Arafat and insists must stop before the stalled peace process can get back on track.
In recent years the Vatican continued to recognise Mr Arafat as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians after Washington and Israel had written him off.
But Vatican officials privately criticised him for what one called "jumping off the peace train".
"There is no doubt that he was a towering figure for his people but his great mistake was not to sign on at Camp David," a senior Vatican prelate told Reuters.
"That was a great failure and a lot of problems stemmed from that," he said. "He missed his date with history."
At a US-brokered a peace summit in 2000 both sides came close to a final accord that would have established an independent Palestinian state, but the talks broke down over the status of Jerusalem and Palestinian refugees.
Washington and Israel blamed Mr Arafat for the failure.
Over the past four years, the Vatican's improvement in relations with the Palestinian Authority coincided with a deterioration of relations with Israel.
The Pope repeatedly criticised Israeli incursions into Palestinian territories and last November, the Vatican was shocked when Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon came to Rome for several days but did not ask to see the Pope.
What "tripe" is that? Consoling the grieving and praying for another's soul? Is that wrong?
SD
That's bull$hit. I was Catholic for six years in the Eighties and Nineties, and I never felt that the Pope was concerned about anything us "poor, dumb rednecks" cared about. All he has done is exalt the cultures of historically Catholic countries while promoting higher criticism and evolution.
An article in my diocese's official publication stated that from now on the Catholic Church would concentrate on "intellectuals" and leave the simpletons to the Fundamentalist churches. This Pope has done or said nothing that contradicts that policy.
Did it work?
SD
If he didn't write it it accurately reflects his opinion. Remember...Arafat and the Pope have visited 11 times during JP II's papacy...there have been numerous photo ops of the two of them walking with their arms linked, kissing in greeting and so forth. And don't forget the pope's infamous act of kissing a koran. This pope has a serious blind spot when it comes to islam and terrorism.
I must have misunderstood. I thought these were the quotes you thought were innacurate.
The 84-year-old Pope's message said he prayed that the "star of harmony" would soon bring peace to the Holy Land and that both Israelis and Palestinians could live "reconciled among themselves as two independent and sovereign states".
He was a leader of great charisma, who loved his people and who sought to guide them toward national independence."
"May God, in his mercy, receive the soul of the illustrious deceased," the statement read, "and bring peace to the Holy Land, with two independent and sovereign states, fully reconciled between themselves."
Hmmm, and what distinguishes a "fiction" writer from a "historian"? Seems more then a few historians, including some you've sited fall squarely in the "fiction" column. Cosidering these men wrote quotes and daily actions of the man Jesus, I would say that is historical. Josephus wrote of the man he did not see on a daily basis but you put more stock in his writings. Either way, you're proven to be dishing out lies, as plenty of "historians" wrote about Christ.
What was your screen name before you changed it to Pitiricus?
The only thing you are open about is posting conspiracy theories and 10-15 year old arguments that you try to pass of as modern facts. I have caught you as being wrong on so many occassions it doesn't bare reciting, yet you conviniently ignore any correction of what for you passes as "facts".
No Pope who has ever lived has given a snivelling $hit about what Fundamentalist chr*stians think. Catholics bash them every bit as much as do liberals and atheists (and leftist Jews).
Where was the Pope's voice during the past week when the liberal elite was excoriating "J*susland" and insisting that anyone who believes in the "virgin birth" is irrational (a perfectly logical conclusion from the Vatican's own position that anyone who believes in the literal truth of the "old testament" is irrational)? They were NOWHERE! They were out to lunch. They could care less what anyone calls (or does to) any "redneck."
Then they go and eulogize this murdering pig.
To be fair, I want to go on record that it was no less wrong for the President of the United States to meet with this %&*#@ a zillion times in the White House, but I naturally have hold the Vatican to higher standards than the Libido under whose rule we suffered from 1993 to 2001.
I take it the Pope believes that the TaNa"KH ("old testament") writings asserting that Israel belongs to the Jews and commanding holy wars of extermination against the "indigenous" Canaanites was the non-infallible, primitive, pre-scientific notion of silly people who didn't realize that G-d Is Against War.
Raymond Brown has might as well be sitting in the "chair of Peter" as this man.
Are you saying that God used to be a racist in the Old Testament, but saw the error of His ways and offered a culturally sensitive plan of salvation in the New Testament?
You've nailed it! That's EXACTLY what these hypocrites are saying!
The "old testament" is primitive mythology, but the "new testament" is the unalterable word of G-d!
What kind of "conservative" prefers the "new" over the "old?"
It is tripe to call out to the Palestinian people, grieving for the monster that led them. The appropriate comment from the Vatican would be to tell the truth to the grieving and as to praying for his soul, it seems that was sold to Satan many years ago. You can't pray for forgiveness for someone who does not repent.
Just my opinion, you don't have to agree.
And your evidence of this is...?
An article in my diocese's official publication stated that from now on the Catholic Church would concentrate on "intellectuals" and leave the simpletons to the Fundamentalist churches.
Did it work?
That just about accurately sums up the Catholic attitude about the concerns of Fundamentalist people. Our concerns are hilarious. The concerns of Yasser Arafat are those of the Church itself. Sort of the way the Armenian Catholicos of Cilicia visited the Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon and declared he viewed its dead as martyrs of his own church.
When I was Catholic I tried to get a priest to talk to my mother to get her to convert so we would be united in the faith. But my mother was an "unsophisticated" rural white Southerner with a sixth grade education, so they didn't want her stinking up their high-ass church (plus conversion isn't necessary since everyone's beautiful exactly as they are).
You Catholics have the same opinion of us Heartland Fundamentalists that the DNC has. I don't know why you have this reputation of being so "conservative." I've never heard a Catholic raise a his or her voice to remind anyone that rednecks are human beings too.
SD
You're about as "soothing" as a porcupine enema.
Come to think of it, a lot of Nazis were homosexual, too. Probably just a coincidence.
No, I find innacurate ABC's description of them as "praising" Arafat. They are nothing like that at all.
The 84-year-old Pope's message said he prayed that the "star of harmony" would soon bring peace to the Holy Land and that both Israelis and Palestinians could live "reconciled among themselves as two independent and sovereign states".
Is this wrong? Is it "praising Arafat" to hope for peace in the mideast?
He was a leader of great charisma, who loved his people and who sought to guide them toward national independence."
Is this "praise"? Seems rather matter-of-fact and unpraiseworthy to me.
May God, in his mercy, receive the soul of the illustrious deceased," the statement read, "and bring peace to the Holy Land, with two independent and sovereign states, fully reconciled between themselves."
Again, is any of this "praise"? Especially given what we have learned by what is meant by "illustrious" (that is, it is a meaningless honorific)?
So where's the beef? How is this the Pope "praising Arafat" or proving he hates Jews?
SD
I don't mock all Fundamentalists. Just certain ones.
SD
Strike "consoling the grieving" from the works of mercy. Forget about the Beatitudes.
Nice.
I guess Jesus really didn't want us to love our enemies. We should rub their noses in it.
SD
The official text of the Pope's statement is in English. Translation is not an issue.
The statement by Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls was issued in Italian. It is this latter statement that speaks of Arafat as "the distinguished deceased".
In any event neither statement amounts to praise.
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