Vatican praises Arafat for Palestinian vision

The Vatican has praised Yasser Arafat as a charismatic leader who struggled to win independence for his people, and repeated its support of a sovereign Palestinian state alongside Israel.

Pope John Paul, who last met Arafat in 2001, retreated into private prayer when he was told of the death of the Palestinian leader earlier on Thursday in Paris, a Vatican source said.

The Pope, who made a historic trip to Israel and the Palestinian territories in 2000, sent a message saying he was particularly close to the Palestinian people "in this hour of sadness".

The 84-year-old Pope's message said he prayed that the "star of harmony" would soon bring peace to the Holy Land and that both Israelis and Palestinians could live "reconciled among themselves as two independent and sovereign states".

Earlier, a statement by the Vatican's chief spokesman called Mr Arafat the "illustrious deceased" and asked God to grant eternal rest to his soul.

"The Holy See joins the pain of the Palestinian people for the passing of President Yasser Arafat. He was a leader of great charisma who loved his people and tried to guide them towards national independence," said the statement by chief spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls.

The official statement was bound to displease Israel because it made no mention of militant attacks, which the Jewish state blamed on Mr Arafat and insists must stop before the stalled peace process can get back on track.

In recent years the Vatican continued to recognise Mr Arafat as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians after Washington and Israel had written him off.

But Vatican officials privately criticised him for what one called "jumping off the peace train".

"There is no doubt that he was a towering figure for his people but his great mistake was not to sign on at Camp David," a senior Vatican prelate told Reuters.

"That was a great failure and a lot of problems stemmed from that," he said. "He missed his date with history."

At a US-brokered a peace summit in 2000 both sides came close to a final accord that would have established an independent Palestinian state, but the talks broke down over the status of Jerusalem and Palestinian refugees.

Over the past four years, the Vatican's improvement in relations with the Palestinian Authority coincided with a deterioration of relations with Israel.

The Pope repeatedly criticised Israeli incursions into Palestinian territories and last November, the Vatican was shocked when Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon came to Rome for several days but did not ask to see the Pope.

Are you saying that God used to be a racist in the Old Testament, but saw the error of His ways and offered a culturally sensitive plan of salvation in the New Testament?

I'm addressing this because (1) it's a good example of how gross are your extrapolations of what I say and (2) it's a reasonable enough question.
I see no basis in the Old Testament for God's being a racist. From the moment Genesis opens, however poetically, with a scientifically sound Order to the creation of the universe, the voices of the Old Testament evidence an overwhelming attention by the sons of Abraham to the voice of God.
Abraham himself, willing to sacrifice his own son, proves unequivocably that he and those who stay close to his bosom are indeed God's own. Not only created in God's image (as we, I assume, believe ALL men to be), they CHOOSE to listen to God and evidence time and again a most personal relationship with Him.
It's the respect I have for those voices ... not to mention the Jews who recognized Christ in his time per the prophecies of the Old Testament ... which leads me to believe they were indeed chosen to birth the Messiah. Without the Old Testament, my faith is senseless. Without the Psalms, the moment of agony on the cross is strictly a moment of abandonment whereas, were I faithful Jew, I might finish for Jesus, himself a faithful Jew, the psalm he began in his agony:

1 Unto the end, for the morning protection, a psalm for David. 2 O God my God, look upon me: why hast thou forsaken me? Far from my salvation are the words of my sins. 3 O my God, I shall cry by day, and thou wilt not hear: and by night, and it shall not be reputed as folly in me. 4 But thou dwellest in the holy place, the praise of Israel. 5 In thee have our fathers hoped: they have hoped, and thou hast delivered them.
6 They cried to thee, and they were saved: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded. 7 But I am a worm, and no man: the reproach of men, and the outcast of the people. 8 All they that saw me have laughed me to scorn: they have spoken with the lips, and wagged the head. 9 He hoped in the Lord, let him deliver him: let him save him, seeing he delighteth in him. 10 For thou art he that hast drawn me out of the womb: my hope from the breasts of my mother.
11 I was cast upon thee from the womb. From my mother's womb thou art my God, 12 Depart not from me. For tribulation is very near: for there is none to help me. 13 Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me. 14 They have opened their mouths against me, as a lion ravening and roaring. 15 I am poured out like water; and all my bones are scattered. My heart is become like wax melting in the midst of my bowels.
16 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue hath cleaved to my jaws: and thou hast brought me down into the dust of death. 17 For many dogs have encompassed me: the council of the malignant hath besieged me. They have dug my hands and feet. 18 They have numbered all my bones. And they have looked and stared upon me. 19 They parted my garments amongst them; and upon my vesture they cast lots. 20 But thou, O Lord, remove not thy help to a distance from me; look towards my defence.
21 Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword: my only one from the hand of the dog. 22 Save me from the lion's mouth; and my lowness from the horns of the unicorns. 23 I will declare thy name to my brethren: in the midst of the church will I praise thee. 24 Ye that fear the Lord, praise him: all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him. 25 Let all the seed of Israel fear him: because he hath not slighted nor despised the supplication of the poor man. Neither hath he turned away his face from me: and when I cried to him he heard me.
26 With thee is my praise in a great church: I will pay my vows in the sight of them that fear him. 27 The poor shall eat and shall be filled: and they shall praise the Lord that seek him: their hearts shall live for ever and ever. 28 All the ends of the earth shall remember, and shall be converted to the Lord: And all the kindreds of the Gentiles shall adore in his sight. 29 For the kingdom is the Lord's; and he shall have dominion over the nations. 30 All the fat ones of the earth have eaten and have adored: all they that go down to the earth shall fall before him.
31 And to him my soul shall live: and my seed shall serve him. 32 There shall be declared to the Lord a generation to come: and the heavens shall shew forth his justice to a people that shall be born, which the Lord hath made.

And that's where we part ways. I don't think that ethnicity or even knowledge of Christ is the determining factor of whether or not a person is Elect. I think any man who follows the example of the Jews in listening for God's voice, seeking the truth and remaining OBEDIENT to that divine will always (rather than following his own), is a good man and true and therefore "chosen" by God as His own.
How could it be otherwise?
Particularly given the way we now seek to impose by force the tyranny of the volonte generale worldwide, I think it critically important to remember that all men ARE created equal and that any nation, such as ours or Israel's, which countenances abortion or Prop. 71 style Human Farming is not likely to be blessed by the Creator whom they excludes as a matter of course from the sacrament of marriage, even, in favor of their own terms of Planned Living.

"This marks the last time I respond to one of your bunkum posts and you have my word I will not initiate further exchanges with you."

Classic case of a person who is used to dishing it out, but screams bloody murder at the first scratch. Are you French by any chance?

Again, I find your comments spiteful, malicious and excruciatingly childish. I am not French but I am a disciple of Christ.

And when you come into the house, salute it, saying: Peace be to this house. 13 And if that house be worthy, your peace shall come upon it; but if it be not worthy, your peace shall return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Amen I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves. 17 But beware of men. For they will deliver you up in councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues. 18 And you shall be brought before governors, and before kings for my sake, for a testimony to them and to the Gentiles: 19 But when they shall deliver you up, take no thought how or what to speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what to speak. 20 For it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you.

Regards, Tap.

Be educated:

By "historicity" I mean historical authenticity. There is a yet small, but growing movement that seeks to present Jesus Christ as a mythical figure, the product of wishful thinking that is totally devoid of any historic documentation that a man named Jesus who founded Christianity ever existed. To my knowledge, there was no indication of any serious doubting on any scale that Jesus was a real historical man until about the eighteenth Century. However, some are becoming bolder today in their claims that Jesus is simply mythical, on the par of Santa Clause, etc.

Historical evidence concerning Jesus. There are a number of ancient historians, writers, and educators whom we could introduce regarding the historic reality of a man named Jesus, the founder of the movement that bears his name, Christianity. These individuals are highly recognized as being reputable and reliable in their various writings and are extensively quoted even by agnostic and even atheistic learned people today.

Flavius Josephus. Josephus was born in either 37 or 38 A. D. When he was 26 years old, he took upon himself the mission of seeking to improve the relations between the Jews and the Romans. He was a historian who was highly respected by the Roman world. He was held in such high regard that he was allowed to accompany Titus when Titus led the Romans Army against Jerusalem (70 A. D.). Josephus wrote several books that have come down to us today, History of the Jewish War (seven different books) and Jewish Antiquities, to name some. Josephus was not a Christian himself. We read:

"At that time lived Jesus, a wise man, if he may be called a man; for he performed many wonderful works. He was a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure….And when Pilate, at the instigation of the chief men among us, had condemned him to the cross, they who before had conceived an affection for him did not cease to adhere to him. For on the third day he appeared to them alive again, the divine prophets having foretold these and many other wonderful things concerning him. And the sect of the Christians, so called from him, subsists at this time" (Antiquities, Book 18, Chapter 3, Section 1).

The above passage was twice quoted by Eusebius as early as 315 A. D. Another passage in which Josephus mentions the historic Jesus is found in Antiquities, Book 20, Chapter 9, and Section 1. This second reference has received comparatively little rejection. After exhaustive research, it could very well be that very early on, a copyist dressed up Josephus' first statement in an attempt to make it more favorable to Jesus. The passage is found in the context of references to sedition, before and after the passage. The above quotation does make reference to, "the sect of the Christians, so called from him, subsists at this time." This is probably, no doubt, part of the pure text, if the text were doctored. However, even if we allow for the early changing of the text, most would have to agree that Josephus does historically allude to Jesus.

Carius Cornelius Tacitus (many of his writings were about 100 A. D.). Tacitus was a Roman historian who reportedly hated Christians. In writing about the life of Nero and the accusation that he burned the city of Rome and blamed it on the Christians, Tacitus says:

"…Nero procured others to be accused, and inflicted exquisite punishment upon those people, who were in abhorrence for their crimes, and were commonly known by the name of Christians. They had their denomination from Christus (Christ, dm.), who in the reign of Tibertius was put to death as a criminal by the procurator Pontius Pilate….At first they were only apprehended who confessed themselves of that sect; afterwards a vast multitude discovered by them, all of which were condemned, not so much for the crime of burning the city, as for their enmity to mankind. Their executions were so contrived as to expose them to derision and contempt. Some were covered with the skins of wild beasts, and torn to pieces by dogs; some were crucified; others having been daubed over with combustible materials, were set up as lights in the night time, and thus burned to death…" (Tacitus, Annals, 15, 44).

Notice that while Tacitus had no regard for the Christians of whom he wrote, he does mention Christ as being the founder of their belief.

Suetonius (Roman historian, born about 88 A. D.). While Suetonius does not mention Christ by name, he does refer to Christianity. This reference and many more that could be supplied proves the early origin of Christianity and details that are congruous with the biblical account. Hear his brief statement in also writing about the life of Nero whose reign began in 54 and ended in 68 A. D.:

"Punishments were also inflicted on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievous religious belief" (Suetonius, The Twelve Caesars, pg. 197).

Pliny the younger, born in 61 A. D. Pliny was sent by the Emperor Trajan to Bithynia in 112 as propraetor. Having found a large number of Christians there, he wrote back to Trajan to get information on how to deal with them. Pliny says to Trajan:

"It is my rule, Sire, to refer to you in matters where I am uncertain. For who can better direct my hesitation or instruct my ignorance? I was never present at any trial of Christians; therefore I do not know what are the customary penalties or investigations, and what limits are observed…." Under specific item number five of his letter, Pliny wrote: "…All who denied that they were or had been Christians I considered should be discharged, because they called upon the gods at my dictation and did reverence, with incense and wine, to your image which I had ordered to be brought forward for this purpose, together with the statutes of the deities; and especially because they cursed Christ, a thing which, it is said, genuine Christians cannot be induced to do…."

Under item number six, he continued:

"…Others named by the informer first said that they were Christians and then denied it; declaring that they had been but were so no longer, some having recanted three years or more before and one or two as long as twenty years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods and cursed Christ…."

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