[teezle]

What is the percentage of Muslims living among the Dutch?

16 million people in the NL of which 1 million Muslims.

What percent of those would you rate as moderate or harmless?

It is said that 5 percent of them are radical.

What percentage of the Dutch sees Muslim radicalism as another nazi occupation.

I don't know the answer to that. I can say that our most rightwing representative Geert Wilders left the VVD (liberals, most rightwing party in NL apart from evangelists party) a few months ago. In the polls he has now 18 seats (of 150) in parlement. Compared to 7 prior to the Theo van Gogh slaughtering

You must know that Holland = Tolerance. We love nuances and hate extremists. Our country is changing I must say. My dad (votes Greens) is now pleading for expelling every extremist in the Netherlands.

For what it's worth, I hold out hope for the Dutch due to their brave and fierce resistance of the nazi occupation. Is this wishful thinking?

I don't know what is going to happen. As of know the situation is escalating day by day (just learned of another attack on a mosque).

[Naomi4]

16 million are Dutch and one million are Muslim?

With their birthrate and the birthrate of the original Dutch population, they will own your country in a generation. When that happens, you may get the chance to emigrate, if you are lucky. The Islamic way is "convert or die." Sometimes they kill you anyway just for the bloodlust of it.

The Muslims are going to bring another Dark Ages upon Europe.

This is what you Dutch get for your historic generosity to all cultures.

[bd476]

Please forgive my ignorance. It was my impression that radical Muslims started some of the church fires and attacks after the Muslim terrorists were arrested for murdering Theo Van Gogh.

[A. Pole]

You must know that Holland = Tolerance.

But the Dutch enjoy kindapping, jailing and subjecting to the show trial abuse of those Serbs who dared to defend their country from the Muslim conquest. Release the hostages kept by you in Hague first! Or let God punish you by having your own Kosovo to be ruined and taken away from you.

Holland = Hypocrisy.

[Spirochete]

My dad (votes Greens) is now pleading for expelling every extremist in the Netherlands.

The radical that killed van Gogh was a formerly "moderate" muslim. You have 16 million muslims in the NL, any of them can transform into radicals at any time. Your father needs to understand that all of them must go.

[all4one]

teezle....thanks for your informative posts and stay safe. In a religion/moon cult such as the Muslims believe; they promote to all of their believers that it is perfectly acceptable to "kill all infadels" it is written in their holy book the Koran.

One of these days, the governments of the world will stop trying to pretend that there are "moderate Muslims" and that their religion is a peaceful one. If a Muslim is living his life according to the Koran; he cannot ever in his heart be moderate.

[AmishDude]

Some notes:

• On 9/11, 3000 Americans died, two of our tallest buildings were leveled and I don't recall any mosques or Islamic schools being burned. The closest is the killing of one Sikh by a person of questionable sanity, although CAIR would say that dozens -- maybe hundreds -- of Muslims were talked to meanly or looked at funnily. One filmmaker is killed and the Netherlands goes crazy.
• You can listen to a Pim Fortuyn or you can get much worse. Before he was killed by an insane person, Pim Fortuyn was persona non grata in the Netherlands. "Responsible" people condemned him uniformly. There was no place for him among the elites. There was no dialogue about it because that dialogue would not be tolerant. Now that Theo van Gogh has been murdered, there is no outlet for frustration at Islamic intolerance. No outlet that has any responsibility anyway. It's now in the hands of thugs and criminals and skinheads.
• The institutions of Europe are an echo-chamber. I don't know about the Netherlands, but I'm going to guess that it's like the rest of Europe where the television programs are subsidized and the news programs are quite uniform and to the left of the sentiment of most of the people, certainly to the left of the newspapers. The elites, even from different political parties, think the same way, have the same views and abhor the same kinds of ideas. The "right way of thinking" is very well-defined and dissent is simply not permitted.
• Some things cannot be tolerated. The prevaling view is now one of fear that the Muslims have been "pushed" into radicalism. This is the wrong view. The most radical Muslims are the ones with the easiest lives. Children of the educated upper-middle-class, second generation, bored. The problem with this view of tolerance is that it assumes that all are sheep. And even if one wolf comes in, perhaps he can be dealt with -- given a small, sickly member of the flock to feast upon -- but when a pack of wolves emerges, there is no way to combat this systematic problem.
• The solution is that the Netherlands has to discuss choking Muslim immigration to a drip. There will be fights and there will be accusations of racism and intolerance and the Dutch will have to deal with the fact that the self-righteous view of their own morality has been illusory.

[Vigilanteman]

Thanks for the perspective. I grew up reading Corrie Ten Boom's books on the resistance to the nazis and pray that the Dutch can find and inspire like-minded people throughout Europe.

Is there really such a shortage of laborers in Europe that you need to import people from Muslim countries? Perhaps the United States could encourage some of the millions of illegal (mainly Mexican) immigrants to consider settling in Europe to reduce the need.

I'd prefer to see us diversify our mix of immigrants by bringing in people from Asia or India as the economy needs them. Muslims simply do not seem to mix well with any culture, anywhere in the world.

[pepsionice]

What surpises me about the whole Netherland thing...is the speed of events. The attacks on the Mosques...took only a couple of days. The reaction of the police to the explosives found...apparently have set off a national high police posture. The US state department has declared this weekend a period for Americans not to travel around the Hague. This didn't take months after the van Gogh killing...it took mere days.

Here in Germany, there is a high watch upon what is happening in the Netherlands. If it triggers any anti-Muslim efforts...then revenge will occur...and the right-wing in Germany benefits greatly.

If this weekend goes off without any violence...then the whole situation may simple tail off. But if more violence occurs...I'd watch for additional situations in Denmark and Germany by next week. This thing has a opportunity to take off.