The killing of Theo van Gogh and the aftermath - Report by a Dutch guy

[teezle]

I have read several comments by FReepers about the slaugthering of Theo van Gogh and see a lot of half truths about it. Therefore I will write this short report from Utrecht (The Netherlands).

Theo van Gogh was a very famous film maker and columnist in The Netherlands. His movies were about several topics including a remake of Romeo and Julia with a Dutch girl and a Morrocan immigrant. He was a very generous guy as all his friends mentioned at the funeral and a good citizen (working for his son's sportclub). His other side was his fun in provoking people. He has provoked almost every well-known person in the Netherlands. For instance, there has been a lawsuit against him for commenting: "It smells like caramel, they must be burning the Jews with diabetes". He just loved to create conflicts.

He has been sacked as a columnist numerous times and the last few years he used the free newspaper in public traffic and his website www.degezonderoker.nl (thehealthysmoker) for his insults. Last years a lot of his insults were pointed against Muslims which he always mentioned as goatf*uckers. And yes, that is possible in the NL. I read an article about a NYT reporter who was thinking how he was going to translate that. I read in the NYT that he finally used "bestiality with a goat". :-)

Another person in the NL who is trying to start a discussion about Muslims and the Koran is Ayaan Hirsi Ali (House of Representatives for the liberal party). She is originally from Somalia and when she was told to marry a guy she fled to the NL. She asked Theo van Gogh to do a short film about Mulims women surpression and he did. Ayaan has been threatened so many times (she is someone who is not Muslim anymore, don't know the word for that) that she got police protection 24/7. Theo did not want protection.

Last week Theo van Gogh was cycling through Amsterdam and Mohammed B. shot him several times, slit his throat and than stabbed two knifes in him. One was sticking a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his body.

That night 20.000 people were making a lot of noise on the Dam (square) in Amsterdam to make a statement that this will not be tolerated. Also several Muslim demonstrations have been held after Tuesday. And a few rightwing extremist (neo nazis) were having demonstrations but these were aborted by the police.

A few more people were arrested in the aftermath and police are searching Mohammed B.'s religious teacher. They both had contact with Samir A., the guy who was arrested for planning attacks against the House of Rep.

Mohammed B. was raised in the NL and was a normal (read: moderate Muslim) until two years ago. He started visiting more radical mosques, got a beard and started wearing djelaba's. People around him say that he started becoming radical after his mother died of cancer. But when he got radical they lost contact.

Since Theo van Gogh was not a normal guy his friends organised a party the day before his funeral. They even had a corner with goats behind a fence with a sign above it: "For people that have the urge". :-)

Since last Tuesday a few attacks have been commited against Islamic schools and mosques. This ranged from small fires to thrown-in windows. Apart from two other attacks: A bomb attack at a Islamic school in Eindhoven and yesterday a fire that burned down a Islamic school in Uden. Also several churces have been under attack in recent days and yesterday night (I cannot believe it) the church in the village I grew up at (Boxmeer) was set on fire (small one though).

This morning I woke up and learned that the terrorism police squad tried to enter a house in The Hague and got a grenade thrown at them. Three police men were hurt. The police is trying to prevent the thing that happened in Madrid (exploding house when they entered) and are still waiting to enter the house. It is now even prohibited to fly over The Hague.

I can tell you guys this. Living in the Netherlands at this moment in time is very unreal. The song I keep having in my head this morning is "We gotta get out of this place.." I am starting to think more and more that we are on the edge of a major conflict within the NL (as some of you guys have been telling al along), but I am not ready to give up on the Muslim community in the Netherlands.

If it happens I probably have move to another country (perhaps to America like Theo van Gogh was going to do when his son finally got 18, is now 12 I believe). We'll see...

Btw. People were questioning my Dutch decent because of my English but I lived in England for half a year so that's why.

If anyone has any questions about the Netherlands or the situation as of now, please feel free to ask.

Best, Teezle

[Fred Nerks]

"Everywhere Islam comes into contact with another culture, regardless of what that culture might be, violence follows."

Ask Protestants in Dafur about Islam...you also wrote. I wonder how many know that muslim converts are also victims in Dafur? (Because they are black.) Indigenous peoples throughout history, regardless of religion have always been wiped out by arabs.

[bellas_sister]

JRD was on to something....

[Fred Nerks]

"They knew VERY WELL about the Barbary pirates, the Saracens and the Turk."

'They' should have read the book by Sir William Muir: The Caliphate:Its Rise Decline and Fall.
It traces the history of islam from the death of the 'prophet' until the conquests and expansion of islam in Arabia, the Near East, Iran, North Africa and Spain.

The entire 602 pages are filled with nothing but slaughter.

[wayne_shrugged]

Be safe!

[occutegirl]

Thanks for posting. My ex husband is 1/2 Dutch, so my daughter is a Dutch Baroness. I was always impressed with the strength of the members of his family who survived the occupation.

[bd476]

Is this nuance or intelligent reaction?

From Zacht Ei:

woensdag 10 november 2004

The politics of apologetics

"On the one hand side, I meet plenty of people, both Dutch and Muslim, who say they condemn the Van Gogh murder. But. They understand it.

On the other hand, I meet a slightly smaller number of people, mainly Dutch and not as many Muslims, who say they don't want to condone the attacks on mosques. But. They understand it.

May I offer a heartfelt raised middle finger to both groups?"
23:03 uur Reactie(s)

The politics of apologetics

[jb6]

Does that now mean that every Muslim is our enemy?

No it means every single Muslim is suspect until proven otherwise. Thus is life. I served out my time too and saw what peace loving muslims do in places like Bosnia and Makedonia and other areas I don't care to list.

[jb6]

I believe that the United States will suffer another terrorist attack and I fear it will be even worse than 9/11. What do you want us to do? Do you, yourself, believe that ALL Muslims are evil? Do you want them all wiped off the face of the earth? Would you like to see American Muslims interred in camps as we did with the Japanese, or maybe have them all deported? Should we allow hate crimes against our fellow Americans who are Muslims?

First, the Germans never rose up in anything like even one million. Yes, enemies were interened and killed and a cabal of officers attempted to do what most officers wanted, Hitler dead. But the public still sees those men as traitors to their honor to serve.

Are all muslims evil? No. Is islam the lowest of low, the wickedest of wickedness? No, Satanism is one step ahead, but other then that, islam is a violent, xeonophobic, war mongoring religion of hatred, distrust and envy, and those are easily recieved from the pervert Mo's own words and deeds and since Islam stands and falls on the actions of its one big prophet, Mo, it stands guilty as charged.

Yes I want with every ounce to see Islam erradicated off the face of this earth, my one great dream. The muslims should be converted, as a Christians I prefer to save their lives. Let each great faith cut out a swath of Islamic region and convert in mass.

Intern camps? They'll be begging for the camps to hide in as Joe America goes rampaging on the muslims in pay back. Mark my words, Cowboys and Muslims will be the game of the day should something like a small nuke or bio be released.

[jb6]

Which rest of Europe? Russia? Serbia? Poland? Ukraine? Belgium? Maybe Germanic/Latin Europe is done but the Slavs are anything but.

[jb6]

We have seen this sort before; Mohammed B. is the Dutch-Moroccan version of the British-Pakistani killer of Daniel Pearl. Both came from good families that had to all appearances successfully assimilated into Western society. Both were well educated and upwardly mobile. Both had money and opportunity. Neither suffered unusual discrimination. Both lived in politically correct, meticulously tolerant societies that permitted no intrusion on their private lives. There was no apparent reason, either psychological or sociological, why either should have become a killer. Yet each freely chose — freely chose — to become a terrorist.

Now add Islam into the mix and see what happens.

Oh and I'm sick and tired of the US MSM and the western European MSM's self-centering: Europe is doomed! The West is doomed!. Sorry to bust the bubble there, but Western Europe is not the West or all of Europe, only about 15 lefty, soft and dumbed down socialist states. Central and Eastern Europe is CHRISTIAN, does not believe in Multi-Culturalism and generally has a higher birth rate (never mind the help of NATO bombs in stopping that amongst the Christian Serbs).

[jb6]

With a huge enemy on their borders, the Europeans finessed the issue,

See this is what I mean, who was that alien huge enemy? The Warsaw Pact, made up of whom? Other Europeans.

[KC_Conspirator]

That does not sound like the Netherlands I am used to hearingh about. However, this problem has been festering for some time, and that famous Netherlads tolerance, even of the intolerant, is coming back to bite them.

BTW - Who is ahead in the Eridivisie?

[jb6]

he Dutch are groping for a "solution," but they are still ducking the real problem, which, to their consternation, we are dealing with more effectively and far more self-confidently. "The multicultural crisis," Magdi Allam wisely reminds us, "should teach us that only a West with a strong religious, cultural and moral identity can challenge and open itself to the 'others' in a constructive and peaceful way. And that the goal must be a system of shared values within a common identity."

Sorry don't buy into it. Here in the US, multi-culturalism and relevnce is still the order of the day. Observe the Bush non-Amnesty Amnesty.

[jb6]

What is amazing is they take in these laborers while sprouting 9-12% unemployment rates. ????

[jb6]

The Caliphate: Its Rise, Decline and Fall

[teezle]

BTW - Who is ahead in the Eridivisie?

Ah! Nice topic! PSV and Feyenoord are first and second. AZ (Alkmaar) is doing very good and are playing for the championship. Ajax (my club) has a huge crisis and is fourth... They lost against Maccabi Tel Aviv in the Champions League (Europe). It's a shame...

Next year there will be a new model for the Eredivisie. We will have play-offs instead of a competition like the American play-offs. There are pro's and con's, nukber 5 in the competition gets the change to compete in the Champions League which will certainly harm Holland's European position in the Euro-ranking. (more points, more clubs in Europe). On the other hand. The end of the season will be very exciting. Did play-offs effect the excitement of the competition in America?

[teezle]

Unemployment rate is 6%. The laborers were welcomed during the sixties and seventies. The problems now are because of the children of the laborers. Nowadays Holland immigration legislation is one of the toughest in Europe and the requests for entering the country are the lowest for years and years.

[teezle]

And besides that. It was thought that they would leave again and it looked like that way since they didn't want to spend a cent in Holland and send everything back to their countries. They lived wih dozens in one house and had shifts for the available beds...

But they stayed... and now we are looking at the consequences.

[Chena]

"No it means every single Muslim is suspect until proven otherwise."

I see. So every Muslim is guilty until proven innocent. Is it just me, or does that go against everything we, as Americans, stand for? And from a Christian perspective, those words speak against what God preaches as well. I'm sure you want what is best for America and the world, but it's how we accomplish our goals that makes all the difference in the world.

[KC_Conspirator]

Wow! I had no idea that Ajax was so low. Usually its between them and PSV. I follow the few American players in the league, like John O'Brien and now Demarcus Beasley.
How many players did you lose from last year's championship team?