The killing of Theo van Gogh and the aftermath - Report by a Dutch guy

[teezle]

I have read several comments by FReepers about the slaugthering of Theo van Gogh and see a lot of half truths about it. Therefore I will write this short report from Utrecht (The Netherlands).

Theo van Gogh was a very famous film maker and columnist in The Netherlands. His movies were about several topics including a remake of Romeo and Julia with a Dutch girl and a Morrocan immigrant. He was a very generous guy as all his friends mentioned at the funeral and a good citizen (working for his son's sportclub). His other side was his fun in provoking people. He has provoked almost every well-known person in the Netherlands. For instance, there has been a lawsuit against him for commenting: "It smells like caramel, they must be burning the Jews with diabetes". He just loved to create conflicts.

He has been sacked as a columnist numerous times and the last few years he used the free newspaper in public traffic and his website www.degezonderoker.nl (thehealthysmoker) for his insults. Last years a lot of his insults were pointed against Muslims which he always mentioned as goatf*uckers. And yes, that is possible in the NL. I read an article about a NYT reporter who was thinking how he was going to translate that. I read in the NYT that he finally used "bestiality with a goat". :-)

Another person in the NL who is trying to start a discussion about Muslims and the Koran is Ayaan Hirsi Ali (House of Representatives for the liberal party). She is originally from Somalia and when she was told to marry a guy she fled to the NL. She asked Theo van Gogh to do a short film about Mulims women surpression and he did. Ayaan has been threatened so many times (she is someone who is not Muslim anymore, don't know the word for that) that she got police protection 24/7. Theo did not want protection.

Last week Theo van Gogh was cycling through Amsterdam and Mohammed B. shot him several times, slit his throat and than stabbed two knifes in him. One was sticking a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his body.

That night 20.000 people were making a lot of noise on the Dam (square) in Amsterdam to make a statement that this will not be tolerated. Also several Muslim demonstrations have been held after Tuesday. And a few rightwing extremist (neo nazis) were having demonstrations but these were aborted by the police.

A few more people were arrested in the aftermath and police are searching Mohammed B.'s religious teacher. They both had contact with Samir A., the guy who was arrested for planning attacks against the House of Rep.

Mohammed B. was raised in the NL and was a normal (read: moderate Muslim) until two years ago. He started visiting more radical mosques, got a beard and started wearing djelaba's. People around him say that he started becoming radical after his mother died of cancer. But when he got radical they lost contact.

Since Theo van Gogh was not a normal guy his friends organised a party the day before his funeral. They even had a corner with goats behind a fence with a sign above it: "For people that have the urge". :-)

Since last Tuesday a few attacks have been commited against Islamic schools and mosques. This ranged from small fires to thrown-in windows. Apart from two other attacks: A bomb attack at a Islamic school in Eindhoven and yesterday a fire that burned down a Islamic school in Uden. Also several churces have been under attack in recent days and yesterday night (I cannot believe it) the church in the village I grew up at (Boxmeer) was set on fire (small one though).

This morning I woke up and learned that the terrorism police squad tried to enter a house in The Hague and got a grenade thrown at them. Three police men were hurt. The police is trying to prevent the thing that happened in Madrid (exploding house when they entered) and are still waiting to enter the house. It is now even prohibited to fly over The Hague.

I can tell you guys this. Living in the Netherlands at this moment in time is very unreal. The song I keep having in my head this morning is "We gotta get out of this place.." I am starting to think more and more that we are on the edge of a major conflict within the NL (as some of you guys have been telling al along), but I am not ready to give up on the Muslim community in the Netherlands.

If it happens I probably have move to another country (perhaps to America like Theo van Gogh was going to do when his son finally got 18, is now 12 I believe). We'll see...

Btw. People were questioning my Dutch decent because of my English but I lived in England for half a year so that's why.

If anyone has any questions about the Netherlands or the situation as of now, please feel free to ask.

Best, Teezle

[CORedneck]

I know the Muslims are invading nice countries like Sweden and Denmark as well. Another story, I traveled to Eastern Canada in Summer of 2003 and I did a stop in Northern Toronto area. I traveled on Yonge Street between the 407 and the 401 and that neighborhood changed quite a bit especially the are just North of the 401. The previous time I was there was back in 1991 on vacation. At that time, it seemed like a safe neighborhood and I did not have any problem parking a nice car there. In 2003, the neighborhood went to shit. A lot of the store fronts had Arabic writing and there was quite a bit of trash on the sidewalks and street. I remembered a good Korean Restaurant - Dr. Kim's but I couldn't find it this time. Even though Toronto is known for being a safe city, I would not walk down that part of Yonge Street or park a nice car there today.

It is apparent especially since 9/11/2001 that Islam is bad especially the Sharia (Islamic law) and how it treats non-Islamic people as second class citizens and God help you if you are a Christian !

[mrpipesmkr]

Yes, the yardstick for immigration ought to be table manners. Any culture which eats with their bare hands off the floor should be banned. We only want quality people.

:-) What about chopsticks?

Nice jab, Teezle! I enjoy your sense of humor!

[technochick99]

True. I suppose I didn't get it right because I am still on my last nerve with people who insult my president for being stupid, simple, etc.

[Roy Tucker]

His letter said something like: Here I am, drowned in blood... Paradise bla bla bla. He forgot that Dutch police just want to arrest you and not kill you. Now Theo van Gogh is a martyr and he banging his head against the wall in prison...

Yeah, that'll show him. I suppose he will be out in 4 or 5 years for good behavior?

[Luigi Vasellini]

There was an article posted here yesterday about 2 pali suicide bombers turning themselves in for FEAR OF THEIR FAMILIES HOUSE DEMOLISHED.

[Crawdad]

Somebody please send a few copies of 'Camp of the Saints' to Holland.

[sandydipper]

The bottom line - the Jihadist want to kill every non muslim on the planet. We should be ready.

[jb6]

Never did I say the Dutch are to be suicidal. Sorry, I'm an Orthodox Christian and to us suicide, self murder, is eternal damnation. I admonish you to fight for your homeland and not to run, not to become a copy of the Islamics.

[hellinahandcart]

I suppose I could chalk it up to a translation problem.

But the Euros would be falling all over themselves trying to establish the literal meaning, the range of possible meanings, the context and subtext of any political statement uttered in, oh, say, ARABIC---so screw 'em.

They deliberately live in error and want that error respected as an equally valid viewpoint with the truth.

[Major_Risktaker]

In memory of Mr. Theo Van Gogh: A joke about a married Dutch girl to a Moroccan immigrant....

A Moroccan immigrant stumbles across an old lamp while he was at the mosque.

Figuring his luck has to change, he rubs the lamp and "poof" out pops a genie. The genie explains to him that he gets three wishes, and whatever he wishes for, his wife gets double.

The Moroccan immigrant explains the situation with his wife and the goat, and then asks for his first wish. "The first thing I want is a million dollars."

The genie says, "Okay, but you know that your wife gets two million."

The Moroccan immigrant said, "That's okay. My second wish is for a large house on a remote tropical paradise."

The genie says, "Then your wife will have two beautiful houses."

The Moroccan immigrant replied, "That's fine. Now for my third wish. I want you to beat me half to death."

________________________________________

Teezle, het welkom en dankt u.

Gelieve te bezoeken:

This is just the beginning.
Is Holland Next?

Teezle, if you were in charge of Holland what immigration policies would you promote?

And finally if you need any type of support with this matter, don't hesitate on asking me.

Help is on the way.

[houeto]

According to one article I read 800,000 muslims out of 16 million in The Netherlands and they estimate between 3-5% of the muslims are radical.

Do you know what the estimate is in America? I've never seen a number.

[Honorary Serb]

The REAL PROBLEM is that the Netherlands is effete, "post-Christian", and gay and feminist saturated. The Dutch are not reproducing themselves, and the influx of muslims is replacing the Dutch demographically. A clash between "tolerant" Dutch and radical islamoNazi savages was inevitable!!!!

The Dutch problem is also shared by their Western European neighbors, especially the super-decadent entity known as Belgium, the headquarters of both the EU and NATO. All these countries and organizations have sucked up to the islamists by persecuting the Serbs, hoping to secure their oil supplies and to avoid a clash with islamoNazism. Even the Blue State elitists in our own country have been doing the same. However, that is a LOSING GAME from the beginning!!!!

The Dutch need to STOP IMMIGRATION now, and find excuses for deporting as many islamic immigrants as possible. They need to re-convert to Christianity, which is now a physical ans well as a spiritual necessity, and to embrace their Serbian Christian brothers and sisters instead of persecuting them. And they need to adopt pro-natalist policies that will ensure the continuation of future generations of Dutch people!

[betty boop]

Thank you so much for the informative post, teezle.

[houeto]

All of these locales are plagued by angry young Muslims

If ALL of your women were denied ANY sexual pleasure EVER in their lives, you'd be angry too. Weird ain't it?

[DoctorMichael]

Thanks for posting your observations on this site and being a pair of eyes and ears "on-the-ground" for the FReeper community.

[JCEccles]

Dutch people who do that are certainly most intolerant. There were White Power signs on the Uden school so that should say enough. No, the US did not cause people to react that way. The problem is very complex and if Bush is representative for Americans, Americans do not like complexity.

What we (conservatives) don't like is spinelessness, equivocation, and moral relativism. That in a nutshell is how we view the "complexity" that holds Europeans in its thrall.

It is the Dutch who are discovering the virtue of taking simple, straightforward moral stands. Unfortunately, in a moral sense their legs and spines have become atrophied from disuse so much over time they are too wobbly on their feet to stand more than a few brief moments at a time.

BTW, why weren't van Gogh's films and statements critical of Islam prosecuted under Dutch hate crime laws? Don't get me wrong. I believe hate crime laws are an abomination, an evil attempt to coerce thought. But I find it amusing that a country such as The Netherlands that would strictly censure a Christian who declared publicly that homosexuality is a vile disorder of the soul and body would blithely wink at van Gogh's suggestions that Muslims are subhuman goatf***ers.

[Honorary Serb]

By the way, the clueless (and Serbophobic) feminazi editorial page editor of my Blue State local paper wrote an editorial yesterday condemning Dutch "violence" against muslims, and urging "tolerance".

This is yet another instance that shows that the Blue Staters and Kerry supporters just don't get it!!!!

[Spirochete]

My dad (votes Greens) is now pleading for expelling every extremist in the Netherlands.

The radical that killed van Gogh was a formerly "moderate" muslim. You have 16 million muslims in the NL, any of them can transform into radicals at any time. Your father needs to understand that all of them must go.

[PajamaTruthMafia]

At the same time, Europe needs to stop rationalizing the irrational hatred that possesses Islamic terrorists. Islamic terror is not the result of some "failed integration policy" or of some real or imagined Muslim grievance supposedly caused by U.S. Middle East policy. It is fueled by a totalitarian ideology that seeks world domination and the subjugation of infidels and the West. The sooner Europe comes to terms with this truth the sooner it will begin to combat the fanaticism that claimed the life of Mr. van Gogh.

The Van Gogh Murder
November 10, 2004; Page A16

http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB110004023978469379,00.html

[A. Pole]

The Dutch problem is also shared by their Western European neighbors, especially the super-decadent entity known as Belgium, the headquarters of both the EU and NATO.

In Brussels the capital of Belgium and EU the most popular name for the newborn boys is Mohammad, the second is Osama.