The killing of Theo van Gogh and the aftermath - Report by a Dutch guy

[teezle]

I have read several comments by FReepers about the slaugthering of Theo van Gogh and see a lot of half truths about it. Therefore I will write this short report from Utrecht (The Netherlands).

Theo van Gogh was a very famous film maker and columnist in The Netherlands. His movies were about several topics including a remake of Romeo and Julia with a Dutch girl and a Morrocan immigrant. He was a very generous guy as all his friends mentioned at the funeral and a good citizen (working for his son's sportclub). His other side was his fun in provoking people. He has provoked almost every well-known person in the Netherlands. For instance, there has been a lawsuit against him for commenting: "It smells like caramel, they must be burning the Jews with diabetes". He just loved to create conflicts.

He has been sacked as a columnist numerous times and the last few years he used the free newspaper in public traffic and his website www.degezonderoker.nl (thehealthysmoker) for his insults. Last years a lot of his insults were pointed against Muslims which he always mentioned as goatf*uckers. And yes, that is possible in the NL. I read an article about a NYT reporter who was thinking how he was going to translate that. I read in the NYT that he finally used "bestiality with a goat". :-)

Another person in the NL who is trying to start a discussion about Muslims and the Koran is Ayaan Hirsi Ali (House of Representatives for the liberal party). She is originally from Somalia and when she was told to marry a guy she fled to the NL. She asked Theo van Gogh to do a short film about Mulims women surpression and he did. Ayaan has been threatened so many times (she is someone who is not Muslim anymore, don't know the word for that) that she got police protection 24/7. Theo did not want protection.

Last week Theo van Gogh was cycling through Amsterdam and Mohammed B. shot him several times, slit his throat and than stabbed two knifes in him. One was sticking a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his body.

That night 20.000 people were making a lot of noise on the Dam (square) in Amsterdam to make a statement that this will not be tolerated. Also several Muslim demonstrations have been held after Tuesday. And a few rightwing extremist (neo nazis) were having demonstrations but these were aborted by the police.

A few more people were arrested in the aftermath and police are searching Mohammed B.'s religious teacher. They both had contact with Samir A., the guy who was arrested for planning attacks against the House of Rep.

Mohammed B. was raised in the NL and was a normal (read: moderate Muslim) until two years ago. He started visiting more radical mosques, got a beard and started wearing djelaba's. People around him say that he started becoming radical after his mother died of cancer. But when he got radical they lost contact.

Since Theo van Gogh was not a normal guy his friends organised a party the day before his funeral. They even had a corner with goats behind a fence with a sign above it: "For people that have the urge". :-)

Since last Tuesday a few attacks have been commited against Islamic schools and mosques. This ranged from small fires to thrown-in windows. Apart from two other attacks: A bomb attack at a Islamic school in Eindhoven and yesterday a fire that burned down a Islamic school in Uden. Also several churces have been under attack in recent days and yesterday night (I cannot believe it) the church in the village I grew up at (Boxmeer) was set on fire (small one though).

This morning I woke up and learned that the terrorism police squad tried to enter a house in The Hague and got a grenade thrown at them. Three police men were hurt. The police is trying to prevent the thing that happened in Madrid (exploding house when they entered) and are still waiting to enter the house. It is now even prohibited to fly over The Hague.

I can tell you guys this. Living in the Netherlands at this moment in time is very unreal. The song I keep having in my head this morning is "We gotta get out of this place.." I am starting to think more and more that we are on the edge of a major conflict within the NL (as some of you guys have been telling al along), but I am not ready to give up on the Muslim community in the Netherlands.

If it happens I probably have move to another country (perhaps to America like Theo van Gogh was going to do when his son finally got 18, is now 12 I believe). We'll see...

Btw. People were questioning my Dutch decent because of my English but I lived in England for half a year so that's why.

If anyone has any questions about the Netherlands or the situation as of now, please feel free to ask.

Best, Teezle

[teezle]

Debating is A good thing Teezle, but when they start cutting off the heads of your citizens and throwing grenades at your police the situation has moved beyond debate

Your right about the terrorist. Not about the majority of Muslims.

[bert]

Thanks for the report. Understanding comes from knowinf and you have helped with the knowing.

[teezle]

directly working to stop it, which one has a reason to expect if these "moderate islamics" would side with Dutch culture.

They are going to make a handbook (the Dutch solution...) to detect readical Muslims and act against them.

I think the Dutch need to implement a policy that all families in a mosque will be deported if a member of theirs commits an act of terrorism or is caught with terrorist weapons.

Something like Israel is doing? Demolishing homes of suicide bomber families. We can see that that is really working very well...

[shhrubbery!]

if Bush is representative for Americans, Americans do not like complexity

teezle, you seem to be an intelligent guy. So don't buy into the Michael-Moore-ish leftist propaganda rubbish that President Bush is 'simple' and 'doesn't like complexity.'

The Left calls Bush 'simple-minded' because he sees a difference between good and evil. For the Left, this is anathema. In their relativistic world, everything must be a shade of gray; to believe otherwise is 'stupid.'

But our president is neither simple, nor stupid. (If IQ means anything to you, Bush's military records show that his IQ is a highly respectable 125+, higher than John Kerry's.)

Indeed, our president has just shown the world that he understands the 'complexity' of our nation's electorate, far better than all the pollsters, pundits, and prognosticators of the world.

[rageaholic]

Yes, the yardstick for immigration ought to be table manners. Any culture which eats with their bare hands off the floor should be banned. We only want quality people.

[teezle]

I forgot to mention in my story about the martyr letter the guy had in his pocket.

When he left Theo van Gogh he fled into a park. There the police found him which resulted in a salvo of bullets against the police. They shot him in the leg and arrested him.

His letter said something like: Here I am, drowned in blood... Paradise bla bla bla. He forgot that Dutch police just want to arrest you and not kill you. Now Theo van Gogh is a martyr and he banging his head against the wall in prison...

[Constantine XIII]

goats in the corner bump :P

[myself6]

bookmark

[hellinahandcart]

There have been zero demonstrations by Muslims against Islamist terrorism, although they found time to participate in a Moveon.org demo in DC a couple years ago, again whining about the Patriot Act.

You jogged my memory, angkor! They also poured out onto the streets in vast numbers when Israel invaded Jenin in 2002.

I remember thinking, "THIS is what finally gets them protesting? What about 9/11?"

The whole thing made me sick. No protests that "Suicide bombing is unIslamic!", but plenty of outrage a week later that Israel was retaliating.

[teezle]

Yes, the yardstick for immigration ought to be table manners. Any culture which eats with their bare hands off the floor should be banned. We only want quality people.

:-) What about chopsticks?

[thingumbob]

According to one article I read 800,000 muslims out of 16 million in The Netherlands and they estimate between 3-5% of the muslims are radical.

[teezle]

goats in the corner bump :P

That was said by friends of Theo van Gogh but is most likely a joke. :-)

[A. Pole]

Yes, Srebrenica shows that Serbs were just trying to defend there country. After all, the best way is killing all men (7000 I believe).

This is Dutch/Muslim lie. But do not worry - you also will be accused of anti-Muslim genocide and of running Dutch death/rape camps. Such is the gratitude you can count on.

"[...]I notice that in the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed.[...]"
From Hoax in Srebrenica

[angkor]

Chopsticks are far more complicated and elegant eating utensils than the crude knife and fork.

Irrelevant aside: the Thais don't use chopsticks, only a fork and spoon. But don't get it backwards, they'll laugh at you. The spoon is used for eating, while the fork is used to push items off of the plate and onto the spoon. You can use the fork for your pad thai.

[CaptainK]

The silence among American Muslims has been deafening (except for whining). So in comparing this to the "moderate Muslim" response in the Netherlands this week, you have to conclude that the conspiracy of silence is more insidious here than in Holland. How does that happen, I wonder.

My take on the Muslim silence is that they are smart enough to know that we would smell their insincerity a mile away. Why break a sweat organizing phony demonstrations of unity when they don't believe it and we know they don't believe it and they know that we know that they don't believe it.

The Europeans on the other hand lap that s***t up. It amuses the Muslims to see the Euros deluding themselves into believing that a round Kumbia will fix everything, nice and tidy. They laugh about the Euros at the dinner table.

[laconic]

If you ever go to Paris, do not: 1) take the train into the Gare Nord from DeGaulle Airport; 2) get off at the Les Halles metro stop; 3) be in the Metro after closing at 12:30 pm. All of these locales are plagued by angry young Muslims looking for, and often causing trouble.

[hellinahandcart]

Something like Israel is doing? Demolishing homes of suicide bomber families. We can see that that is really working very well...

It is working well, I think. I believe there would have been many more suicide bombings if not for that.

You see, the families of suicide bombers receive large amounts of money as a reward (though a lot less money than they used to get, now that Saddam Hussein is no longer in charge). The Israelis have to make sure that the bounty-money is made worthless, so that fewer Palestinian teenaged barbarians decide to kill themselves to benefit their families.

Now they're reduced to recruiting young children and pregnant unmarried women. One group is easy to fool, and the other has nothing to lose since her family will kill her themselves before her pregnancy starts to show.

So I'd say it's been effective.

[Luigi Vasellini]

why yes it was the US fault not the fact that Theo dared to insult islam,,,its the US fault for muslims slaughtering in the Sudan...its the US fault for muslim slaughter in Thailand, Phillipines, Kashmir, Bali, Nigeria etc.... Stay in Holland and fight it out. We should close all of our borders. Save your own a$$es for a change!!!!!

[A. Pole]

Unfortunately I think not many born Dutch are likely to pick up some bombs, strap them around their body and walk into a mosque.

Especially that Dutch mothers do not let their babies to be born. They prefer Muslims to provide the next generation.

[philetus]

also a lot of moderate Muslims


If they agree with it, they are not really muslims.
Muslims all worship the same god (not mine) and read the same book.
Remember, the koran says it's OK to lie to Islam's enemies.
M