Posted on 11/05/2004 11:10:33 AM PST by Jaysin
That doesn't mean there's a "religious element" to anything I've said. If the subject of this thread had been Christians of Polish or Hungarian descent, my comments would have been no different.
Thank you very much. You explained a lot of what is puzzling to many on this board. GLTY.
When you understand that Reform Judaism (the largest sect in the US) used to have as its base the concept of the local synagogue replacing the original Temple (hence they call them temples), and were very much anti-zionist, having essentially placed their permanent future outside of Israel.
In recent decades, their has been a trend away from that philosophy and toward Israel's support, but IMHO many still have that traditional attitude that there is nothing special about Israel that cant be done right here at home (so to speak).
It is this Jewish voice that you often hear that is contrary to Israel's hard right stand on issues of security, and is determined to strengthen the voice of Reform Jews in Israel itself (but that is for another thread).
Very good post, I hope your analysis proves correct.
I'm not Jewish but I'm a Zionist since 9/11.
On target assessment!
bump
good! All Jews know that Jews are a hard people to understand.
Hey! It's Friday night...doesn't your animated fishy EVER quit downloading? Must have a helluva diet.
I am a reform Jew in my 40's. I live in Westchester, NY. While we do look at the Orthodox community as a bunch of atavistic fanatics trying to live as if they were in the 1600's my community has a great allegiance towards Israel. We are all highly educated, successful and affluent. I personally voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004. Most of my friends however did not. I really have no explanation other than they are following in their parents' footsteps. I explain to them that a vote for Kerry is a vote against Israel but it just doesn't seem to register.
They are died in the wool liberals and so fear a religious takeover by the right wingers that they keep voting 'rat. We are only 40 miles from ground zero and yet they act as if they believe it will never happen again. I personally believe their attitude is similar to the Jews of Europe pre WWII.
I have little patience for them. I just say I am very happy that they are so in tune with the political party of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and move on. I thank my lucky stars that the non-Jews in the midwest and flyover country understand the situation and made sure that Bush was re-elected.
LOL So what else is new? Do you know how much fun I have just sitting back and watching her rip on jewhaters? They always flock to these threads.
I agree that "most Chassids" believe in Israel as a state. I am not sure how the actual population breaks down but I was under the impression that Lubavicher Chassids are a large %age of this country's chassidic population and I know they support Israel.
May God Bless you and your family, always.
You want honesty?
I am a conservative, not Orthodox, Jew but I live in a community where there are lots of Orthodox. I know several wonderful chassidic rabbis. One is really a very holy man, and yet he persists with a frankly unholy fear of Christianity. He fights against messianics (people of Jewish origin who are now Christians and who try to convert Jews to Christianity using some subterfuge) as though this was our worst enemy. It's dirty pool, but it's hardly the worst problem for Jews today.
People in the local (chassidic) Orthodox community will not say "Christmas," for example. They will only say "December 24th" or "X-mas." I consider that to be not Judaism but superstition, which the Torah actually does not approve of.
There is something wrong when you FEAR another religion that much. I love Christians. Christianity is the right religion for Christians. A good Christian and a good Jew are both trying to live a holy life in G-d's path, and it doesn't get much better than that. Neither is a threat to the other and we should coexist joyously. But some chassids have lived so isolated a life that they have fear of what they do not understand.
When "The Passion" came out, they were afraid that "it" might start to happen here. Many Jews have family members who went through the Holocaust. Antisemitism begins small, through social jealousy and religious bigotry. Most Jews were relieved to find that Christians were thrilled with the movie but not filled with bitterness toward Jews. Passion plays used to inflame Christians specifically against Jews. Gibson using that same word in his title was cause for ears perking up, at least, in the Jewish community. When I think of what my father lived through, I can understand the slight anxiety. It wasn't all that long ago.
But all's well and I am personally very happy that a pro-Christian movie did so well, considering how anti-Christian Hollywood is. It offends ME how openly Hollywood hates all Christianity (unless it's a "black church"??), and I am not even Christian.
I tried to talk to my liberal brother about it. Isn't it ironic that those who fear a religious takeover are the least religious themselves? They seem to be liberals first, Jews second.
This is it in a nutshell.
I suppose the notion of "NYC Jews" also includes radical campus Jewish intelligencia all over the country.
I agree that the Orthodox community may be the fastest growing part of the Jewish population. However, the atheistic anti-Israel left wingers by far outnumber the rest of the Jews, so I wouldn't expect big changes in the Jewish vote any time soon - that is, if some really spectacular confrontation between the forces of Good and Evil doesn't occur.
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