The Chinese Dragon submerges

Asia Times ^ | 10.28.04 | Phar Kim Beng

[dennisw]

bttttttttt

[American in Israel]

I pretty much agree with you, but think the Chinese Carriers are going to hit the sea a bit quicker than estimated. I also expect a first strike scenario against the US in a Joint Russian-Chinese effort.

But I also expect martial law in America before that. So If I am on the right track, you have nothing to worry about until you see martial law in the streets of the USA.

Now I think I will take off my tinfoil hat, that thing is hot...

[sukhoi-30mki]

A first strike scenario makes sense if your talking of nukes & a nuke war has no winners.If your talking of conventional weaponry,it would be suicidal as most of the Russian armed forces are underfunded & poorly trained & large chunks of the PLA are obsolete.Not to forget the mutual distrust between the 2-something which is manifest in Russia always preferring India as a a preffered buyer of it's most advanced weaponry(despite China buying more).

PS-Martial Law in the US-wow have you been reading too many tinpot novels of late??your comments used to be so sober!!!!

[bert]

There is no such port in the Bahamas. Shipping in the Bahamas doesn't even compare to our ,inor ports of Charleston or Savannah.

The largest is LA Long Beach.

Here are the others

Top 20 Foreign Ports:
1) Hong Kong 2) Shanghai, China 3) Singapore 4) Kaohsiung, China 5) Rotterdam, Netherlands 6) Pusan, Republic of Korea 7) Bremerhaven, Germany 8) Tokyo, Japan 9) Genoa, Italy 10) Yantian, China 11) Antwerp, Belgium 12) Nagoya, Japan 13) Le Havre, France 14) Hamburg, Germany 15) La Spezia, Italy 16) Felixstowe, United Kingdom 17) Algeciras, Spain 18) Kobe, Japan 19) Yokohama, Japan 20) Laem Chabang, Thailand

[Grzegorz 246]

"Russians subs are as good ,if not better than their European counterparts as far as weaponry & quieting is concerned."

Our "Eagle" (Kilo class) sink almost everything during NATO war games in the Baltic and North Sea. Usually they can't even localize this ship until are virtually hit and sunk.

[Constantine XIII]

"...China had built new Yuan-class diesel submarines that combine Russian technology and Chinese engineering."

So it's chock full of vacuum tubes and will break a week after you buy it? :P

[sukhoi-30mki]

& the scariest part is that Poland's Kilo is an early gen variant with older electronics & weaponry,unlike the newer variants used by China or India,which have the 'Klub' anti-ship/land attack cruise missile & provision for AIP.Having said that ,I think the Poles have been smart enough to integrate better electronics & sensors(a crucial weakness in Russian D/Es) whatwith the Germans & the french being around.

[snowsislander]

They have already taken over our canal and have built the world's largest container port in the world that also has one of the worlds largest runways...just off our coast in the Bahamas

There is no such port in the Bahamas. Shipping in the Bahamas doesn't even compare to our ,inor ports of Charleston or Savannah.

You are correct that the "world's largest container port" is not in the Bahamas (I believe that honor goes to Hong Kong at 20 million TEUs in 2003), but there is a large one in Freeport, Freeport Container Port (FCP) which is owned by Hutchinson-Whampoa.

FCP's throughput was over 1,000,000 TEUs in 2003, which would put it in throughput squarely among the top 10 container shipping ports in the U.S. (as you point out, it would be a bit behind Charleston and Savannah, but it would be more than either Seattle or Tacoma):

U.S. Waterborne Foreign Trade
Containerized Cargo
Top 30 U.S. Ports
Calendar Year 2003
(Thousand Teu's)
U.S. Ports	Total	Export	Import
Los Angeles	4,664	1,022	3,642
Long Beach	3,091	723	2,368
New York	2,803	838	1,965
Charleston SC	1,250	529	721
Savannah	1,124	529	595
Norfolk	1,093	460	633
Oakland	1,064	548	517
Houston	933	483	450
Tacoma	931	337	594
Seattle	815	329	486
Miami	764	336	428
PT Everglades	423	236	187
Baltimore	307	115	192
New Orleans	237	139	98
Portland OR	210	147	63
Wilmington DE	195	29	166
San Juan	185	39	147
Gulfport, MS	179	71	108
West Palm Beach	140	106	34
Jacksonville	113	72	42
Philadelphia	103	9	95
Boston	93	34	58
Newport News	80	32	48
Chester PA	72	28	44
Wilmington NC	72	28	44
San Diego	53	9	44
Freeport TX	50	23	28
Richmond VA	41	20	21
Honolulu	37	18	19
PT Bienville, MS	25	23	2
Top 30 U.S. Ports	21,148	7,312	13,836
All Other	141	77	64
Total	21,289	7,389	13,899
Top 30% of Total	99.3%	99.0%	99.5%
Source: Port Import/Export Reporting Services (PIERS)

As the original poster pointed out, the Chinese do have a "world's largest" in the Bahamas:

Grand Bahama Airport (GBA)

GBA is the largest privately owned airport in the world. The airport has an 11,000-foot runway capable of handling the world's largest aircraft.

China is interested in the Bahamas, and has established formal diplomatic relation, having recently signed an agreement:

Ocean Shipping Agreement between the Government of the People's Republic of China and the Government of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, signed in Nassau on April 10, 2003, by Vice-Minister of Communications Hong Shanxiang and Foreign Minister Mitchelle on behalf of their respective governments.

There was what I think was a misleading article from NewsMax back in 2000 titled "Chinese Company Completes World's Largest Port in Bahamas", which seems to have at least that fact incorrect. I don't think it is largest in terms of containers (which is what it is designed to be, a transshipment point for containers), nor is it physically anywhere near the size of any of the great ports of the world, nor is it greatest in tonnage. Also, the article makes more than I would out of a few Chinese signatures for visitors at the port.

The point that China is operating so boldly in the Western Hemisphere is bad enough without NewsMax overstating what has happened.

Although I have been lucky enough to see some of the great shipping ports and even participate in a bit of shipping, shipping is not my area at all and I am sure that an enterprising freeper could help shed further light.

[Grzegorz 246]

Yes, this one was built in late 80s. Also Baltic and Northern Sea aren't deep, so generally so big ship should be localized easily. Something was improved in this Polish Kilo, however It wasn't serious modernization. We have soldiers (mostly light infantry) in Afghanistan, Kosovo, Iraq and other strange places, so new APCs, personal equipment etc. are more important now. I would rather prefer new helicopters than sub modernization, however of course It would be also useful. Also Russians would be angry again If we improved Soviet built equipment on our own, but It's nothing new.