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The Libertarian Menace
TAS ^ | 10/29/2004 | John Tabin

Posted on 10/29/2004 2:07:39 PM PDT by swilhelm73

There's a good argument, to which I'm somewhat sympathetic, for small-government types in non-swing states to vote Libertarian this year; Jeremy Lott laid out the case last week. But while I do consider myself a small-l libertarian, the big-L Libertarians cannot expect my support.

In 2000 I lived in New York, solidly in Al Gore's column according to every poll. So I pulled the lever for Harry Browne, the Libertarian Party candidate. For months afterward, I kept hearing that President Bush lacked a "mandate" because of the popular vote/electoral vote mismatch. It seemed that, the Constitution aside, the popular vote makes a political difference after all, if only by virtue of the fact that some people are willing to argue that it does. Perhaps this isn't as big a concern this year, as President Bush seems safer in the popular vote than in the electoral college, but then again some people said the same thing about Gore in 2000.

I might have gotten over that annoyance if it weren't for the trauma that came the following fall. I'd known that Harry Browne, like much of the LP, was a bit... non-traditional in his foreign policy views; in his 1996 book Why Government Doesn't Work he laid out his case against every American military action from the War of 1812 forward ("war is just another government program," he wrote repeatedly, quoting Joseph Sobran).

What I'd written off as relatively harmless kookiness in an election where foreign policy was barely an issue seemed a much bigger deal on September 12, 2001, when Browne wrote that the attacks were the result of our "insane" foreign policy, which made it "only a matter of time until Americans would have to suffer personally." His prescription was to "resolve that we won't let our leaders use this occasion to commit their own terrorist acts upon more innocent people, foreign and domestic, that will inspire more terrorist attacks in the future," and by "terrorist acts" he meant "any military response" (he went on to vigorously oppose the war in Afghanistan). Heaping ignorance upon isolationism, he rested his case in part on the historically illiterate assertion that "Switzerland isn't beset by terrorist attacks, because the Swiss mind their own business."

There's nothing inherently libertarian about any of this -- libertarians come at foreign policy from every conceivable angle -- but, because of a history too dull to get into right now, there are those believe that it is, and this sort of blame-America-firstism is the norm among LP activists. Michael Badnarik's campaign website perfectly echoes Browne.

Of course, Badnarik won't become president, so perhaps his foreign policy doesn't bother you. But if you believe, as I do, that a second term of President Bush would be preferable to a first term of President Kerry, then consider that the LP officially disagrees with you. Under "Operation Wisconsin Blue," the Badnarik campaign has openly raised money from liberals to run ads in Wisconsin targeted at conservatives, the idea being to swing the state for Kerry. "We don't want Bush to win in Wisconsin any more than you do," said a page on the Badnarik.org website (which has disappeared sometime since last week). And Jamin Raskin reports that vote-pairing websites, wherein a swing-state Naderite agrees to vote for Kerry in exchange for a non-swing-state Democrat's agreement to vote for Nader, now includes Libertarians making the same trade as the Naderites because, as Raskin puts it, they are "appalled by the Orwellian, antichoice, antigay, and repressive policies of the budget-busting Bush administration." (Only a hard-leftist uses words like "antichoice" and "antigay" often enough the he feels no need to hyphenate.)

If you're interested in registering a protest with a vote for that ideological coalition, be my guest. As for me, I'll be casting my vote for Bush, in protest of all of those fools in the other parties.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: harrybrowne; jeremylott; libertarian; michaelbadnarik
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1 posted on 10/29/2004 2:07:40 PM PDT by swilhelm73
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To: swilhelm73

Bottom line:

The substantive issues the Libertarians raise are never
going to get a hearing, much less productive debate,
until the menace known as the Democrat Party is reduced
to its various warring constituent groups.

If the Dems ever get majority control of the US again,
elections will become 100% shams.


2 posted on 10/29/2004 2:11:46 PM PDT by Boundless (Was your voter registration sabotaged by ACORN? Check today or Monday.)
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To: swilhelm73
big-L Libertarians cannot expect my support.

The Big Ls are targeting swing states. ....it's their only hope of "making a difference."

3 posted on 10/29/2004 2:12:16 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: swilhelm73
Have to doubt that the Libertarians will make much of a dent. The Libertarian party is siding with the Democrats on the war on terror, and that is why I left to become a Republican in 2002.

It is greatly annoying that Bush has tried to placate the left by over spending on social programs. But we are talking about putting the survival of this country in the hands of those who care more about trying to sucking up to the Socialist cliche at the U.N. then defending American lives.

4 posted on 10/29/2004 2:15:28 PM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: AndyTheBear

Well said.


5 posted on 10/29/2004 2:16:22 PM PDT by swilhelm73 (We've found more WMDs in Iraq than we've found disenfranchised blacks in Florida. --Ann Coulter)
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To: swilhelm73
Menace?

I would hardly consider a tiny irrelevant group of wack-jobs who cannot even garner 1/2 of 1% in an election a MENACE.

LOL!
6 posted on 10/29/2004 2:17:45 PM PDT by broadsword (Weren't there a couple of giant Buddhist statues in Afghanistan? What happened to them?)
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To: swilhelm73

I question the timing of this article. LOL


7 posted on 10/29/2004 2:30:19 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: swilhelm73

Kinda stupid article -- if everybody who'd voted Libertarian in losing states had voted for W, it would have been less than 1% -- not enough to swing the popular vote to Bush from Gore.


8 posted on 10/29/2004 2:32:22 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: All
There is no logical reason, much less any practical one, for a conservative to vote anything other than Republican. We should vote in the GOP primaries for the most conservative candidate, then vote for the Republican in the November elections. I don't try to convince the majority of posters on this this site, (gave up that hopeless task many moons ago), but rather rational folk out there.

Everyone with a functioning brain knows that all conservatives voting for the GOP and living with the results is the only workable option. Voting LP, voting Constitution Party, sitting on your buns on 11-2, etc, all sound wonderful, but are totally and completely counterproductive. For you flakes out there, this post is not for you--I'd be surprised if you've read this far--but is instead for those who want the most results we can achieve. For the rest of you, ignorance is certainly bliss.....

9 posted on 10/29/2004 2:48:13 PM PDT by Malcolm (there is no substitute for good manners)
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To: Malcolm
We should vote in the GOP primaries for the most conservative candidate

The primaries are infomercials. The candidates, speakers and platforms are chosen before hand by party insiders and presented to the delegates for a politburo style, made for tv, show of approval.

Try making a peep outside the party line during a primary and you'll find yourself outside just as fast as security can grab your arm.

When this changes, get back to me. Until then... Badnarik.

10 posted on 10/29/2004 2:56:16 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: AndyTheBear

I suspect you and I can be considered "Ron Paul Republicans" - stomaching the less palatable acts of the Republican party in hopes that we can help the party its small-government ideals.


11 posted on 10/29/2004 2:59:06 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: freeeee
Try making a peep outside the party line during a primary and you'll find yourself outside just as fast as security can grab your arm.

Uh...sounds like your talking about the conventions, not the primaries.

12 posted on 10/29/2004 3:09:27 PM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: mvpel

Aw shucks, I'm not sure the Bush wing of the Republican party really is for small government, though smaller the the Rat party to be sure. But none of it matters if we lose the war.


13 posted on 10/29/2004 3:12:55 PM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Papatom
After 40 years of being abused and scammed by the GOP

Pretty broad brush you got there, did you just paint over Ronald Reagan?

15 posted on 10/29/2004 4:52:49 PM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: AndyTheBear
The Federal Budget as well as the budget deficit increased at a greater rate under President Reagan than it did in the previous decade.

Its far easier to talk the talk, than it is to walk the walk.

16 posted on 10/29/2004 5:07:49 PM PDT by Doe Eyes (Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.)
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To: Papatom
The only minor exceptions among Republican socialists in the 20th century were Taft and Coolidge.

If those two were minor exceptions, was Barry Goldwater a major exception?

Or would you classify him as a Republican socialist because he supported a military strong enough to destroy America's enemies?
18 posted on 10/29/2004 6:17:18 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko (I'm not part of the problem. I'm a Republican.)
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To: swilhelm73

The LP does NOT side with the democrats on the war on terror. They loathe the pacifism of the left and want to get the U.S. out of the UN as soon as possible. They believe in deterrance and direct strikes against terrorist groups. I happen to agree with them. I think the $200billion++ spent in Iraq would have been put to much better use by increasing the CIA and NSA budgets by 10,000%, creating the ultimate spying/espionage/counter-terrorism force on the planet. We could have infiltrated and destroyed them from within...This is the only way to defeat these people. We can't beat a worldwide network of terror cells by mounting a Normandy-esque invasion of a single country. I think most honest conservatives realize this now.


19 posted on 10/29/2004 8:06:38 PM PDT by Capitalism2003 (America is too great for small dreams. - Ronald Reagan, speech to Congress. January 1, 1984.)
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To: Capitalism2003

Oh please. Did you read the article?

The LP = Dems on foreign affairs.

Sadly, more and more the LP = Dems overall.


20 posted on 10/29/2004 8:20:57 PM PDT by swilhelm73 (We've found more WMDs in Iraq than we've found disenfranchised blacks in Florida. --Ann Coulter)
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