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Civilization and Its Enemies - The Next Stage of History
Civilization and Its Enemies - The Next Stage of History, Free Press | 2004 | Lee Harris

Posted on 10/28/2004 10:26:07 AM PDT by Noumenon

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Long, but worthe the read, as is the rest of the book. You may as I did find minor points of dispute with the author's premises, but his vision is on the whole a breathtaking model of clarity. I'd love to sit in on a discussion between Harris and VDH.
1 posted on 10/28/2004 10:26:07 AM PDT by Noumenon
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To: Noumenon
Ibn Khaldûn...

[S]edentary life becomes the last stage of civilization and the point where it begins to decay. It also constitutes the last stage of evil and of remoteness from goodness.... [S]edentary people have become used to laziness and ease. They are sunk in well-being and luxury. They have entrusted the defense of their property and lives to the governor who rules them, and to the militia which has the task of guarding them.... They are carefree and trusting, and have ceased to carry weapons. Successive generations have grown up in this way of life. They have become like women and children, who depend upon the master of the house."
-- Ibn Khaldûn, Muqaddimah, 1377

2 posted on 10/28/2004 10:33:22 AM PDT by sionnsar (NYT/Cbs: "It's fake but true!" | Iran Azadi | Traditional Anglicans: trad-anglican.faithweb.com)
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To: Noumenon

Wow, a great read! Bookmarked and printed out! Thanks. You are right, imagine this guy and VDH together on a talk show or something..


3 posted on 10/28/2004 10:36:42 AM PDT by Paradox (Occam was probably right.)
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To: sionnsar

Wisdom is where you find it.

Pretty much sums up the modern American liberal mindset, doesn't it?


4 posted on 10/28/2004 10:39:52 AM PDT by Noumenon (The Left's dedication to the destruction of a free society makes them unfit to live in that society.)
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To: Noumenon
According to Spengler, Civilization is the degraded form of Culture. He talked about the various stages of bloom and decline of cultures over time. When we look at the Muslim culture and the civilization it produced, we see a failed and inferior culture to begin with....what??? tell half of humanity to sit at home with a sheet over your head?
5 posted on 10/28/2004 10:42:17 AM PDT by SMARTY ('Stay together, pay the soldiers, forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus, to his sons)
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To: SMARTY

We're on the verge of throwing our own civilization away. This is one of history's great watershed moments. And as Harris points out, it is the decisions - or lack of them - made by individual men that determine the rise and fall of of cultures and civilizations.

In other words, it is up to us - it always was.


6 posted on 10/28/2004 10:54:25 AM PDT by Noumenon (The Left's dedication to the destruction of a free society makes them unfit to live in that society.)
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To: Noumenon
We're on the verge of throwing our own civilization away. This is one of history's great watershed moments.

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
-Ronald Reagan 40th president of US (1911 - 2004)

Indeed.

7 posted on 10/28/2004 11:02:17 AM PDT by backhoe (Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the Trackball into the Dawn of Information...)
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To: backhoe

Some of us - no - a lot of us Get It. Will it be enough, in this time and in this place? We're going to find out and soon. War is coming, and not just from the Islamofascist front.


8 posted on 10/28/2004 11:05:10 AM PDT by Noumenon (The Left's dedication to the destruction of a free society makes them unfit to live in that society.)
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To: Noumenon

read later


9 posted on 10/28/2004 11:06:26 AM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: snopercod

"That is why it is impossible simply to stand by and not take sides. No outcome is assured by any deep logic of history or by any iron law of human development. Individual civilizations rise and fall; in each case the fall was not inevitable, but due to the decisions – or lack of decision – of the human beings whose ancestors had created the civilization for them, but who had forgotten the secret of how to preserve it for their own children."

That's one of the most telling insights of the preface. There is no neutral ground - morally, philosophically or otherwise. That's the gist of, "you're either with us, or wit hthe terrorists."


10 posted on 10/28/2004 11:13:52 AM PDT by Noumenon (The Left's dedication to the destruction of a free society makes them unfit to live in that society.)
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To: Noumenon
Our biggest problem are the enemy within. In the 60s they sided with the world Soviet effort and helped our enemies defeat us in Vietnam. In the 80s they sided with the softer Socialist movement, advocating nuclear freeze and Sandinista control of central America. In the 90s they have abetted a huge immigrant invasion of the USA. Throughout the entire period they have relentlessly hammered away at the core values of our civilization and sought to replace our core ethical and knowledge traditions with strange leftist cant.

The AQ threat is not seen as a threat by a large portion of our population because they are not part of our civilization. They are outsiders, barbarians inside the gates. They are the enemy within.

Even if AQ is not totally successful it's unclear we will survive the contining 'velvet revolution' of the left.

11 posted on 10/28/2004 11:33:19 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
Well, we've got some choices to make, and soon wuth respect to dealing with our domestic enemies. This is the "elephant in the living room" that so many of us have resolutely ignored.

"If the enemy is composed of men who will stop at nothing, who are willing to die and to kill, then you must find men to fight on your side who will do the same. Only those who have mastered ruthlessness can defend their society from the ruthlessness of others."

Fell deeds await...

12 posted on 10/28/2004 12:20:29 PM PDT by Noumenon (The Left's dedication to the destruction of a free society makes them unfit to live in that society.)
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To: sionnsar
They have entrusted the defense of their property and lives to the governor who rules them, and to the militia which has the task of guarding them

That is where the citizens give up and don't care anymore. It not a matter of entrusting, it's a case of despair.

13 posted on 10/28/2004 12:23:56 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: Noumenon

You keyed this in yourself, didn't you?

I've started reading it, but not finished yet.


14 posted on 10/28/2004 1:16:19 PM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: backhoe
Hell, my good (85-year-old) friend tells me that I will never know what it was like to be free in America. I believe him.

He has told me how he and all his friends used to take shotguns and .22s to school every day and lean them up in a corner so they could hunt something for supper after school.

He walked all the way from Florida to NY and slept under bridges, etc. just to get a job. Never had to show ID and never got rousted for vagrancy.

...and many more eye-openers.

15 posted on 10/28/2004 1:20:52 PM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: snopercod

My long-departed Father ( born 1890, Cape Hatteras ) told me of many such things-- we really have let a lot of freedoms slip away. We won't be seeing them return, either.


16 posted on 10/28/2004 1:24:38 PM PDT by backhoe (Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the Trackball into the Dawn of Information...)
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To: backhoe

These days, you go out for a Sunday drive in your Aeronca, and people (including many FReepers) want to shoot you down.


17 posted on 10/28/2004 1:39:53 PM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: snopercod
Aeronca?

Jeez! My Mom- the old Master Sergeant- learned to fly in an Aeronca back in WWII, at Caspar, Wyoming. I've never been sure if her tale of lashing the prop back on with baling wire and then taking off was true, or just a wee exaggeration.

18 posted on 10/28/2004 1:49:58 PM PDT by backhoe (Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the Trackball into the Dawn of Information...)
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To: snopercod

Yes I did. I felt that it was that important. The book itself is quite interresting. More on that after I've finished it and had time to digest it.

That assumes that events don't overtake us over the next week or so.


19 posted on 10/28/2004 3:08:46 PM PDT by Noumenon (The Left's dedication to the destruction of a free society makes them unfit to live in that society.)
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To: backhoe

I'm impressed. Your Mom invented safety wire! ;-)


20 posted on 10/28/2004 3:15:05 PM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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