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TSA's Rear Admiral Stone, Meet GA's Major Concerns...[GA=General Aviation]
AvWeb ^ | October 25, 2004 | AvWeb Editorial Staff

Posted on 10/25/2004 4:17:08 PM PDT by snopercod

TSA's Rear Admiral Stone, Meet GA's Major Concerns... Chief of the Transportation Security Administration, Rear Adm. David Stone, spoke to a full house at AOPA Expo 2004 in Long Beach Friday morning in what was a sometimes optimism-inspiring, sometimes contentious interaction with some of the people most directly affected by his agency's actions -- us, the pilots. Appearing as both the gentleman and politician (insofar as that is possible) Stone was in the end sent on his way by a standing ovation. The act seemed either a reflection of patriotism, respect for a good man in a difficult job ... or people so anxious to leave they simply got up while politely applauding. (Put money on A or B.) The reaction was at least warranted by Stone's steady and careful response to a barrage of post-speech questions, which are perhaps best paraphrased by, "Why are you doing this to us, what did we ever do to anyone?" Generally, Stone met that tone with the message that his charge is the safety of our country, his intent is to fulfill that task, and his determination is to seek cooperation and partnership with affected parties. Stone's conviction was that those relationships will be the ones to ensure that our freedoms are not compromised -- neither our safety. Much

...TSA Listens, We'll See How Well It Hears...

Stone's speech seemed to imply that the range, scope and motivation (the overall safety of our nation) driving the TSA has sent it trolling a broad-reaching ocean with giant nets not yet made dolphin-safe ... and a lot of the playful friendly little guys have so far been mistakenly snatched up. Translation: The agency has first set out to address the immediate (if not three years old) threat and having done so, it now intends to divert some attention to little things like Boy Scouts denied access to control towers, pilots denied access to FSS and FSDO offices, and the inability of pilots, controllers, or FSS personnel to accurately decipher TFRs. It seems too that the TSA may even soon devote some attention to how background checks for a sailplane rating applicant should perhaps differ from those associated with an applicant seeking a type rating or instruction in a B-747 simulator.

[snip]

TSA Amends Alien Flight-Training Rule

When the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) released its Interim Final Rule on alien flight training last month, it included a 30-day comment period. Last week, the 30 days were up, and the TSA considered some of the more than 300 comments, as well as industry input from a stakeholders' meeting and other channels, and made some tweaks to the rule. The TSA clarified its definitions of terms, provided an exemption from some record-keeping requirements, and extended the compliance deadline for some applicants. Those changes "are a start but just that and only that," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "While some of our recommended changes have now been implemented, let there be no question: Significant issues still exist, and additional amendments to the original rule must be made."

...Allowing Logbooks Instead Of Files...

One change that aims to ease the record-keeping burden will allow instructors (that's right, the near-minimum-wage-earning future of aviation) to use logbook entries to document that they have checked a student's citizenship ... not that they've been even trained to spot a phony driver's license, let alone a green card or visa. The rule originally required instructors to maintain records, with copies of proof of citizenship for each student, for five years. Now the instructor must note in the student's logbook "I certify that [student] has presented to me a [document] establishing that [he or she] is a U.S. citizen or national ..." The same entry must be made in the instructor's logbook or record. Between the pay, the liability and the demonstrated stability of the industry, we're sure the next generation of instructors can't wait to get started. The TSA's changes also limit the "citizenship validation" requirement to individuals receiving training for a new certificate or rating. Good luck with that new glider rating. (Sailplanes: the next great threat to our nation.)

...And A Delay For Certificated Pilots

The TSA also is putting a 60-day hold, till Dec. 19, on applying the new rules to aliens who currently hold an airman's certificate, either from the FAA or a recognized foreign authority. However, this exemption does not apply to aliens without an airman's certificate, who must comply as of Oct. 20. Also weighing in on the changes was the National Air Transportation Association (NATA), which said it "welcomed" the TSA's effort. "The TSA is at least willing to have a dialogue with industry and has responded favorably to reason and logic," said NATA spokesman Stan Mackiewicz. "While this IFR [Interim Final Rule] was not the TSA's best rulemaking effort, the agency has made significant efforts to work with its industry partners to address those issues that were of significant concern."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aopa; flying; tsa
I am attuned to the necessity of America becoming more vigilant in every area of our lives to prevent another attack on our citizens.

Having said that, I strongly object to some of the federal government's knee-jerk restrictions on private flying.

There has never been a terrorist attack on our Country using a light aircraft. There has been such an attack using large airliners.

So why does the FAA ban light aircraft - but not airliners - from flying over our nation's capitol, baseball games, political rallies, and even Disneyland.

The answer is twofold.

There is a philosophy of hatred loose in America as we see displayed during the nightly TV coverage of this election. For some strange reason, private pilots are lumped into the "rich playboy" category, when in fact, most of us are poor and give up many other things to pay for our "habit".

The second reason is that private pilots are a small minority and have little political pull in Washington. We are an easy target whenever the government wants to show they are "doing something" in the War on Terror. (The airlines, of course, are exempted from the regulations with which we private pilots have to comply. Go figure.)

Have we come to the stage where we must ask big brother for permission to live our lives?

Just look at the hysteria over the Aeronca which flew around the Bush rally in Melbourne, FL the other day. The entire resources of the federal government - including the military - were brought down on some old guy out for a Sunday drive in his 70MPH 30's-era antique aircraft. While the "interception" of this "criminal" was going on, there were probably 20 airliners loaded with hundreds of thoudands of gallons of Jet-A flying directly overhead at the same time. But they were "government approved", and therefore not a threat. /sarc

Americans have a right to travel via whatever means they choose as long as they pay for it themselves. They have a right to do anything they want as long as they don't violate the rights of others.

That's the difference between America and the rest of the world.

Or at least it used to be.

1 posted on 10/25/2004 4:17:10 PM PDT by snopercod
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To: Aeronaut

rant alert!


2 posted on 10/25/2004 4:17:31 PM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: snopercod

We're losing our Republic and becoming a 3rd world dictatorship!


3 posted on 10/25/2004 4:26:58 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: snopercod; Tijeras_Slim; FireTrack; Pukin Dog; citabria; B Knotts; kilowhskey; cyphergirl; ...

4 posted on 10/25/2004 4:41:27 PM PDT by Aeronaut (This is no ordinary time. And George W. Bush is no ordinary leader." --George Pataki)
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To: snopercod
For some strange reason, private pilots are lumped into the "rich playboy" category, when in fact, most of us are poor and give up many other things to pay for our "habit".

Good point. I even see this attitude displayed at FR at times.

5 posted on 10/25/2004 4:54:59 PM PDT by B Knotts ("John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security.")
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To: B Knotts
I even see this attitude displayed at FR at times.

Oh, so you noticed the "shoot them all down" crowd here at FR?

Learning to fly is not difficult, but it's demanding. You have to learn a lot of things in your head, and you have to train your body to respond in a certain way - like putting the clutch in when you come to a stop sign - that sort of thing.

It's become expensive, too. It costs about $4,000-$5,000 these days to get your private pilot license.

Then, after you get your license and are turned loose to really learn how to fly, you realize that there is nobody up there to save you if you screw up.

Having to - literally - survive on your own judgement and ability intimidates many people.

But the satisfaction one gets from being able to meet all those challenges and see the world from a totally new perspective are worth the effort.

I just hope that we Americans will still have that option in the future.

6 posted on 10/25/2004 5:16:17 PM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: snopercod
Oh, so you noticed the "shoot them all down" crowd here at FR?

Yes. They surface on every thread where some poor guy screws up and flies into a restricted area.

It's become expensive, too. It costs about $4,000-$5,000 these days to get your private pilot license.

I know...that's why I don't have my ticket. :-(

I passed my written a few years back, but that's as far as it went.

7 posted on 10/25/2004 5:18:56 PM PDT by B Knotts ("John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security.")
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To: B Knotts
If you are serious about it, find a friend who will take you flying (share expenses...hint...hint). He or she can teach you things and - most importantly - get your body trained to not fear being in the air, and the basics of flying.

You could probably cut the tab in half that way.

My advice: Go for it no matter what it takes. You won't ever regret the sacrifices you will have to make.

8 posted on 10/25/2004 5:24:11 PM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: snopercod

9 posted on 10/25/2004 6:09:02 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Am Yisrael Chai!)
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To: snopercod
"There has never been a terrorist attack on our Country using a light aircraft."

Well you and America forgot about little Charlie Bishop who crashed a small Cessna into a Tampa office building...According to Tampa Police Chief Bennie Holder, Bishop was carrying a handwritten note, which investigators found at the scene of the crash, "expressing his sympathy for Osama bin Laden and the events which occurred September 11, 2001."

10 posted on 10/25/2004 8:36:55 PM PDT by endthematrix (10 out of 10 terrorists agree-Anybody but Bush!)
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To: snopercod
This is the text of a note left by 15-year-old Charles Bishop, who crashed a Cessna 172R into the 28th floor of the 42-story Bank of America Plaza on Jan. 5. Tampa police released the note on Wednesday and ruled Bishop's death a suicide. Police said there was no evidence to support Bishop's claims in his two-page handwritten note or that the crash was an act of terrorism.

In the first paragraph Bishop wrote and scratched through the word 'terrorist' before the word 'acts.' In the fourth paragraph, he underlined the word 'will' in the phrase 'I will make you pay!'

"I have prepared this statement in regards to the acts I am about to commit.

First of all, Osama bin Laden is absolutely justified in the terror he has caused on 9-11. He has brought a mighty nation to its knees! God blesses him and the others who helped make September 11th happen.

The U.S. will have to face the consequences for its horrific actions against the Palestinian people and Iraqis by its allegiance with the monstrous Israelis - who want nothing short of world domination!

You will pay - God help you - and I will make you pay!

There will be more coming!

Al Qaeda (cq) and other organizations have met with me several times to discuss the option of me joining, I didn't.

This is an operation done by me only. I had no other help, although I am acting on their behalf.

Osama bin Laden is planning on blowing up the Super Bowl with an antiquated nuclear bomb left over from the 1967 Israeli-Syrian war.


11 posted on 10/25/2004 8:42:52 PM PDT by endthematrix (10 out of 10 terrorists agree-Anybody but Bush!)
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To: snopercod
Ooops almost forgot Frank Eugene Corder who stole a single-engine Cessna 150L plane and aimed for the White House.
12 posted on 10/26/2004 2:19:04 AM PDT by endthematrix (10 out of 10 terrorists agree-Anybody but Bush!)
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To: endthematrix
Tell me, how many innocent people were killed in the two incidents you mentioned?

That's right. None.

So squashing a light plane onto the side of a building like a bug on a windshield, or landing a small plane on somebody's lawn really doesn't qualify as a "terrorist act" now does it?

There is a reason that light aircraft are not good terrorist weapons. It has to do with physics. The explanation is here if you care to read it: Safe ... Or Free?

13 posted on 10/26/2004 3:43:13 AM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: snopercod
OK. Now that is silly to think that no loss of life fails to qualify in a terrorist act. It was an unsuccessful terrorist act. Don't jump down my throat. I'm just replying to your wrong assertion. Regardless of those events, I support private aviation and reject the smugness from the US government on personal liberty. I just couldn't in good conscience let those two obvious light plane attacks go unmentioned. You just have to add them in and continue your argument. Get my drift?
14 posted on 10/26/2004 9:26:11 PM PDT by endthematrix (10 out of 10 terrorists agree-Anybody but Bush!)
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To: snopercod

It never ends, does it? A bureaucrat in charge at any level of any government agency is always look for ways to expand his empire, his "span of control". Somebody out there that's unregulated? Can't have that - better get it under control.

Makes me sick.


15 posted on 10/26/2004 9:31:53 PM PDT by .38sw
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To: endthematrix
If an automobile driver purposely crashes his car into an overpass abutment, is that also a "terrorist act"?

I guess no, I don't get your drift.

16 posted on 10/27/2004 3:51:27 AM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: .38sw; endthematrix; Spacetrucker; Ditto; blackdog
You and I are told increasingly that we have to choose between a left or right, but I would like to suggest that there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism, and regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
--Ronald Reagan, Oct. 27, 1964

17 posted on 10/27/2004 5:17:38 PM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: snopercod
I used to take my daughter with me flying checks at night thruout the south. She was around ten at the time and couldn't see anything at night and because she sat so low in front of the 206 panel. I taught her to intercept a glideslope, holding patterns, SIDS and STARS and how to do most approaches. I had no auto pilot and her skills became a real tool for me. She could hold an assigned altitude and an airway for me without doing any overcorrection. She has quite the touch. She just got her private pilot ticket and her DE told her she could pass the commercial ride and her instrument ride right now if she could get someone to sign her off for the writtens and the instruction.

She got about $20,000 worth of instruction without it really being instruction! For us it was more like technically intensive daycare which took place from 10:00PM until around 4:00AM a few nights a week.

We hope to get her into the Airforce Academy. She goes to an excellent private high school now, scored 1220 on her SAT's and a 26 on her ACT. I'm torn between getting her additional certificates and ratings over her academics and community volunteering. You need the grades and background to get into the Academy.

18 posted on 10/27/2004 5:39:23 PM PDT by blackdog (Can we possibly have just one more "Kidz-Bop"?)
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To: blackdog

(big smile on my face) Ya' done good, pop!


19 posted on 10/27/2004 5:45:50 PM PDT by snopercod (Inflation, it's how wars are paid for.)
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To: snopercod
Ugh. If the driver crashed (or attempted) in to a crowd of people and carried a note pledging to kill and an elegance to OBL, I call it terrorism. If you get drunk and want to kill the POTUS and go crash your car into his house (or fail to) again that's terrorism. Not ALL murder or attempted murder, destruction of property, etc. is terrorism. I pointed two cases that that proved your statement wrong. Don't lose sleep over it.
20 posted on 10/27/2004 6:15:33 PM PDT by endthematrix (10 out of 10 terrorists agree-Anybody but Bush!)
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