Hyundai, free trade and Dad

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | Sunday, October 24, 2004 | Tom Purcell

[Willie Green]

My sisters and I became ashamed when we got the news. My mother and father bought a Hyundai.

My father used to be a General Motors man. Sure, he made the mistake of buying a few Fords over the years, such as the 1976 Pinto that mother wouldn't ride in for fear it would explode. And both Volkswagens were lemons, especially the Beetle that wouldn't start unless we covered the motor with a plastic diaper every night.

But father only made such mistakes with our second car. Our main car was usually a GM. I still miss our 1976 Catalina station wagon, a gas hog with a 456-cubic-inch engine. Father often said that it drove like a Cadillac, and I marveled at its explosive power when all four barrels were opened full-bore.

~~~SNIP~~~

All I know is that free trade has greatly boosted my parents' standard of living, and that's one thing they'll be thinking about as they drive off to the polls in affordable style.

[Willie Green]

Once again, Tom Purcell proves himself to be a "useful idiot".

Withing the global automotive cartel, Hyundai is financially allied with Daimler-Chrysler and Mitsubishi. This faction routinely conducts business with avowed marxists such as Kim Jong-il, Lula da Silva, and Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm.

Chrysler, Hyundai, Mitsubishi choose Michigan for engine plant
Hyundai Exec Confirms Paying $500 Million to North Korea
Hyundai to Build First Brazilian Factory in $205 Million Project

But, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade.

~Karl Marx, "On the Question of Free Trade" - January 9, 1848

[muir_redwoods]

If you don't believe in free trade whom do you believe is qualified to tell me I can't do business with a willing partner? Freedom of contract is basic. If the GM's of the world cannot compete, I should not be forced to subsidize managements capitulations to greedy unions. If the people of So Korea wish to make a gift of their reduced cost labor to the car buying public in the US, I believe as Milton Friedman said, we should accept their gift freely and graciously.

[MNJohnnie]

Once again, Tom Purcell proves himself to be a "useful idiot".


Once again Willie Green proves himself to be a one hit wonder. An Economic Isolationist, Green would shackle the A American Consumer to over priced, shoddy goods in order to feed his paranoid delusions about Foreigners making stuff. Green, who apparently never attended a single econ class, seems to have embraced the 17th Century ideals or mechantilism. A failed economic model that defined Economic Strength in terms of self sufficiency. Green, who failure to comprehend even the most basic of economic facts about trade can be counted on to post dozens of hysterical uninformed posts on Free Republic weekly exposing his views that Americans should be forced by Dictatorial Government action to become the Economic Slaves of inefficient American companies making shoddy goods JUST because they claim to "be American." The fact that this would bankrupt American society by eliminating our BEST performing company's from being able to compete on the global market AND eliminate any competition for failing American Businesses to evolve or DIE troubles Mr Green's emotionally hysteric intellect not at all.

[MNJohnnie]

Once again, Tom Purcell proves himself to be a "useful idiot".


Once again Willie Green proves himself to be a one hit wonder. An Economic Isolationist, Green would shackle the A American Consumer to over priced, shoddy goods in order to feed his paranoid delusions about Foreigners making stuff. Green, who apparently never attended a single econ class, seems to have embraced the 17th Century ideals or mechantilism. A failed economic model that defined Economic Strength in terms of self sufficiency. Green, who failure to comprehend even the most basic of economic facts about trade can be counted on to post dozens of hysterical uninformed posts on Free Republic weekly exposing his views that Americans should be forced by Dictatorial Government action to become the Economic Slaves of inefficient American companies making shoddy goods JUST because they claim to "be American." The fact that this would bankrupt American society by eliminating our BEST performing company's from being able to compete on the global market AND eliminate any competition for failing American Businesses to evolve or DIE troubles Mr Green's emotionally hysteric intellect not at all.

[quantim]

Imagine the unemployment numbers if foreign companies decided not 'outsource' to this country because of trade barriers.

[Prime Choice]

My sisters and I became ashamed when we got the news. My mother and father bought a Hyundai.

What's to be ashamed of? That Hyundai was most likely built in America rather than built in Canada and Mexico and assembled in America (as is the case with a lot of so-called "American" Detroit automakers).

I don't have any problem buying foreign cars 'cause I'm sick and tired of supporting Leftist Democrat-endorsing unions that game Detroit automakers at every turn.

[Nathan Zachary]

Sorry, I guess I'm a marxist, because I vote for free trade as well.
People often say, but what about those farm subsidies? That's counter to free trade.
Simple. They are a countermeasure to European farm subsidies, which are among the worlds highest subsidies.
The goal is to get Europe to drop it's farm subsidies, and equalize the playing field. Until then, we have to equalize the playing field with subsidies, although ours are much lower than theirs. The Europeon subsidies will eventually bankrupt them,

[Willie Green]

Imagine the unemployment numbers if foreign companies decided not 'outsource' to this country because of trade barriers.

That's precisely what is happening.
Since GWB took office, Foreign Direct Investment in the U.S. has plummeted by 80%

[grey_whiskers]

MNJohnnie:

Relax, unwind, denature your proteins!

Green would shackle the A American Consumer to over priced, shoddy goods in order to feed his paranoid delusions about Foreigners making stuff.

You have forgotten about shoddy, overpriced foreign goods.
Like the Yugo.
Speaking of cars--if American-produced just means 'over-priced, shoddy'--why is there so much 'insourcing' and why do free-traders crow about it?

The fact that this would bankrupt American society by eliminating our BEST performing company's [sic] from being able to compete on the global market...

Err, yes. Just name for me the cheap foreign software companies which are eating Microsoft's lunch and threatening to 'drive them out of business'.

As for H-P, Carly "no American job is safe" is running them into the ground by a combination of clueless strategy and inept execution.

Is AMD straddling the rotting corpse of Intel due to Intel's refusal to use offshoring or H1-B visas? What is Intel's profit margin anyway? And what was it 5 or 10 years ago before all of the ruckus about outsourcing?

Please learn to think before you post.
I'd like to think you are capable of it.

Are you willing to live up to the challenge?

[elbucko]

I like Willie Green's post's. There is a grain of truth in them. I agree with you that American companies are guilty of dropping the ball. General Motors, in particular, made junk in the '70's, '80's and most of the '90's with the help of overpaid union labor. However, the countries that are our "Free Trade" partners still practice the 17th Century "Mercantilism" that you deride. Right now, "Free Trade" is really not so "free". AFAIAC, "Willie" is only half-wrong.

[xzins]

Having spent one year in Korea in 1990-91, I became very familiar with Hyundai and Kia. They were all over the highways. Despite the fact that traffic in Korea was generally a traffic jam, every now and then cars get to open it up and show what they've got. Kias and Hyundais worked very well in Korea over a decade ago, and they'd been around Korea for a long while before that.

It was easy to buy my first Kia -- a minivan -- at $10,000 less than any other minivan on the market. It was easy to sign without having the salesman hit me up for some kind of extended warranty policy because the Sedona came with a 100,000 mile warranty at no extra cost.

This isn't a "new brand" of car. It's just we've not had them here in America. It's working like a charm. I have no complaints.

An old army officer told me once that there are 2 ways to be financially well off....(1) Make a lot of money, or (2) Pay far less for what you buy.

[Lurker]

Gee, our Hyundai was assembled here in America by American labor using something like 80% American or Canadian manufactured parts.

It came with a 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty even though we are the second owners of the car.

It's started every day but one, it was 15 below that morning, gets well over 25 miles to the gallon and when you turn off the overdrive it goes from 0 to 60 quite smartly.

The car had 9K miles on it when we bought it and we paid less than 10 grand for it.

Nothing GM offers even comes close in terms of price, performance, or warranty.

Oh, the guy we bought it from was an American.

He was mighty happy to take our money from us. In fact we bought two vehicles that very day. One the Hyundai and the other a bigass Dodge Durango.

So does that make me only half Marxist?

L

[grey_whiskers]

That's precisely what is happening. Since GWB took office, Foreign Direct Investment in the U.S. has plummeted by 80%

Willie--

How much of that is due to

a) Hype over India led by GE
b) Hype over China (1 billion customers!)
c) Foreign reluctance due to perceived risks in the US, from lawsuits against companies to another 9-11?

[truth_seeker]

The vast creativity and technological prowess of the big three is coming onstreat.

Chevy Malibu is based on German Opel Vectra/Saab 9-3 chasis. Their new GTO is from Australia.

Ford 500 is based on Volvo S80.

Further evidence of the American (dead) car industry-Ford delivers old generation Focus to Americans, while the rest get new generation. So if you want Ford's latest technology buy Volvo V40 or Mazda 3.

The merger of Daimler with Chrysler has elevated the American brand, with excellent German drivetrains. (This merger has put too much of old Chrysler's LACK of quality into the Mercedes line).

All the major car companies worldwide have design studios in Southern California. Old Detroit is fading, fading, fading.

[Nathan Zachary]

I think, the way the Auto agreement works among auto producing countries, is that every car maker has to have a certain amount of the car which is sold in that country, made in that country. Which is why we have Honda plants, Hyundi plants, etc. in this country. GM, Ford, Chrysler, are no longer "American" auto makers, they are "Global" Auto makers.

[Ostlandr]

I must be missing something here. South Korea was, last I knew, a democratic republic, friendly to the US, a high-wage nation, and otherwise a perfectly appropriate place for US companies to do business. Contrast them with China.
Hyundai, so far as I know, provides excellent products at reasonable prices. Even with shipping costs between there and here, they are still nipping at the heels of industry giants (dinosaurs?) like Caterpillar and GM. I even read an article the other day that folks in South Korea are developing refinements to the steelmaking process, making now-pricey steel less expensive and their products more competitive. (searched- couldn't find the article online- anybody else have any luck?)
The American auto industry of the 1970s is ample evidence of why protectionism doesn't work. Bloated, inefficent, unresponsive, it failed to innovate or make use of improved techonlogy. The result was that "Japanese Junk" cars would run between 100,000 and 250,000 miles without a major powertrain failure (if properly maintained.)
Case in point: 1981 Ford Escort vs. 1981 Toyota Corolla.
I owned one of each. The Escort was a sad joke- unreliable, hard to drive, expensive to repair. At 80,000 miles, with a perfect body, I junked it. The 1981 Corolla I bought to replace it had been sitting in a field for two years. It started! It had had 125,000 miles on it when the odometer quit, and had been driven two years beyond that. Having paid only $400 for it, I proceeded to abuse it for two years- and failed to break it. I finally gave it to a friend so he could put the motor in his identical wagon. Best car I ever owned.
A few years later, I bought a 1993 Ford Tempo- the second best car I ever owned. It's quality and reliability met or exceeded my 1981 Toyota.
In short, competition saved the US auto industry. Quality is up, innovation is everywhere, and every company is being forced to give the customers what they want- or the customers go elsewhere. This has even given us the "crossover vehicle"- the blending of sedan, station wagon and SUV- safe, fairly fuel efficient, low polluting and incredibly versatile.
Free markets = good
Command & Control economy = bad

[avenir]

After reading glowing reviews on Epinions I bought a 2002 Elantra GT. It took some convincing, but I am glad I bought this car. Mucho bang for the buck compared to its rivals (in 2002, at least).

[Willie Green]

Sorry, I guess I'm a marxist, because I vote for free trade as well. People often say, but what about those farm subsidies?

Farm subsidies and price supports are what assure an abundant and stable food supply. If not for subsidies, too many farmers would be driven out of business during bountiful growing years when prices are depressed. The consequence would be food shortages and famine if that would be followed by a year of adverse growing conditions. In the short term, additional food sources could not be brought into production fast enough to alleviate the shortages.

The goal is to get Europe to drop it's farm subsidies, and equalize the playing field

Why should the "goal" be to undermine the stability of the European food supply?
Yes Nathan, by promoting such imbecilic and subversive policies, you really ARE a marxist.

[Willie Green]

South Korea was, last I knew, a democratic republic, friendly to the US,

Yes they are.
Unfortunately, they are not immune to having their policies ingored and corruptly undermined by transnational corporatists.

[Nathan Zachary]

undermine the stability of the Europeon food supply? HUH?

The market will take care of itself once all subsidies are dropped. In years of over production, subsidies keep the market prices inflated, which is counter to what capitalizm stands for, so watch who you call a marxist.

Canadians don't have subsidies, yet can outproduce any country in the grain and oil seed markets, which then gets American subsidized farmers crying "grain dumping", when it is in reality, the case of one producer out producing the other at cheaper input costs.

Subsidies do not help maintain agriculture, it slowly erodes it by masking true market value, real cost input.
Drop the subsidies, and the true input costs of farmers with stabilize and set market prices at realistic values, and allow farmers a more fair return and profit margin.