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YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW
The Kerry Spot (National Review Online) ^ | 10/14 08:40 AM | jim geraghty

Posted on 10/14/2004 3:27:26 PM PDT by AZBigDog

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW [10/14 08:40 AM]

You know what? Forget the polls.

During my appearance on Hugh Hewitt's radio show last night, the genial host gently criticized the Kerry Spot and NRO's folks in The Corner of being too pessimistic about Bush's chances. Hugh does have a strong case that the opinion polls should be ignored.

And this isn't the typical loser's whine that "the only poll that counts is the one on Election Day." What model are all the current pollsters using for turnout? At least some of them, if not most of them, are using the most recent presidential election. That would be in 2000, when the unions and black churches got turnout close to 100 percent for their core voters. In November 2000, black-voter turnout was at 54.1 percent, up from 50.6 percent in November 1996, according to the Census Bureau. Meanwhile, nationally, voter turnout from union households was 26 percent, which showed an improvement from 23 percent in 1996, according to exit polls.

Meanwhile, we have heard of Karl Rove's lament of the four million evangelical voters who stayed home on Election Day 2000.

In 2002, pollsters used that same turnout model, expecting high turnout among Democrats and disappointing turnout among Republicans. And they got burned by that model.

Let's compare the final polls of 2002 to the final results of 2002 for the major Senate races. These were the states that had the nation's eyes on it, with the polls conducted in late October or even up to the day before Election Day. Pollsters should have been at their best, with every advantage.

Minnesota

In Minnesota, Zogby had Walter Mondale over Coleman by 6 points. The Minneapolis Star had Coleman down 5 in its last poll.

Final: Coleman 50, Mondale 47. Coleman by 3.

Colorado

In Colorado, Zogby had Strickland over Allard by 5 points, but at the end of October he had Strickland by 9. The Rocky Mountain News had Strickland by 4. The Denver Post had Strickland by 1.

Final Allard 51, Strickland 46. Allard by 5.

New Hampshire

In New Hampshire, the Concord Monitor had Democrat Shaheen over Republican Sununu by one, FPC/WNDS-TV had Shaheen by 5, University of New Hampshire had Shaheen by 4, then had Sununu by 1.

Final: Sununu 51, Shaheen 47. Sununu by 4.

Texas

In the Texas Senate race (not that Texas is a swing state) Zogby's final poll had Republican Cornyn over Democrat Kirk by 4 points, and a day earlier had Cornyn up one. The Dallas Morning News had Cornyn up 9, Survey USA had Cornyn up 8.

Final result: Cornyn 55, Kirk 43. Cornyn by 12.

Georgia

In the Georgia Senate race the final four polls were Zogby showing Democrat Cleland up by 2, Zogby showing a tie, Atlanta Journal-Constitution showing Cleland up 3, and Mason-Dixon showing Cleland up 6.

Final result: Not even close. Republican Chambliss 53, Democrat Cleland 46, Chambliss by 7.

North Carolina

In the North Carolina Senate race the final five polls were Zogby showing Republican Dole up by 10; Zogby showing Dole up 6, Carolina Poll showing Dole up 7, Survey USA showing Dole up 4, and Mason-Dixon showing Dole up 6.

Final result: Dole 54, Bowles 45. Dole by 9. Only Zogby's last-second "correction" poll was close.

Iowa

In Iowa, the Des Moines Register had Democrat Harkin with a moderate 9-point lead, but SurveyUSA had Harkin beating Republican Ganske by an overwhelming 22 points.

Final result: Harkin 54, Ganske 44. Harkin by 10.

There are a few exceptions to this rule. In Missouri, the late polls had Talent up by 8, and up by 4. He won 50 percent to 49 percent.

Note that many of these states are swing states this year. Also note that these pollsters were wrong by 8, 9, 10 points, and they were underestimating support for the Republican candidates by 8, 9, 10 points.

The 2002 elections were the first year that Rove and Co. deployed the first prototype of their 72-hour-focused, extensive get-out-the-vote systems. Hewitt said he watched it work in Colorado that year, and he said "it made every union and church operation look like nothing by comparison."

At this point, no one can predict with certainty exactly how many voters are going to show up. Liberal groups are patting themselves on the back, expecting a tsunami of first-time voters, as angry as they are about Bush, to be showing up at the polls Nov. 2.

Of course, this "massive turnout" theory has a few hitches. One of them is whether in this ugly year of back-and-forth attacks, when a Tennessee Democrat distributes flyers calling Bush supporters "retarded," will voters want to partake in this ugly, divisive, nasty process? Two, how many of these casual, first-time, somewhat motivated voters will see the long lines on Election Day...and say, 'eh, it's not worth the wait?'

Either way, use proper skepticism when reading these polls.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2000; 2002; 2005; bush; electionmodels; elections; hughpolyanna; kerry; polls; turnout
Forget the polls! Election Models? BAD polling two years ago? Makes sense to me. This dog is giving the polls up (Must resist, must resist) Okay well, I'll try to give them up.

Any thoughts?

1 posted on 10/14/2004 3:27:27 PM PDT by AZBigDog
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: AZBigDog

Reading this makes me happy.


3 posted on 10/14/2004 3:32:03 PM PDT by freestyle
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To: AZBigDog
The 2002 elections were the first year that Rove and Co. deployed the first prototype of their 72-hour-focused, extensive get-out-the-vote systems.

Help Us Race To Victory, Volunteer for the 72 Hour Program, such as walking door to door, mailing literature and phone banking. Sign up at the site.
4 posted on 10/14/2004 3:35:38 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko ("Ted Kennedy is the conservative Senator from Massachusetts.")
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To: AZBigDog

The only thing that concerns me (at this point I'm concerned, not worried) is the upward spiral in the price of oil and the plunging stock market.

I'm wondering if some voters will (unfairly) blame Bush for this. I hope not.


5 posted on 10/14/2004 3:36:42 PM PDT by Signalman
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To: AZBigDog
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW

I didn't know that!

6 posted on 10/14/2004 3:37:23 PM PDT by airborne (God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is ,"No".)
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To: AZBigDog

I thought I knew...


7 posted on 10/14/2004 3:37:46 PM PDT by Thom Pain (Quisling - from Vidkun Quisling (1887-1945), a synonym for "traitor")
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To: AZBigDog

Just as long as there are no October surprises, we should be okay, I hope.


8 posted on 10/14/2004 3:38:55 PM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper (I flunked my Global Test.)
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To: AZBigDog

BUSH WINS BIG


9 posted on 10/14/2004 3:41:35 PM PDT by marty60
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To: AZBigDog

It's all about turn-out, not polls that seem to always oversample democrats.


10 posted on 10/14/2004 3:43:23 PM PDT by DaBroasta (Dear democrat voter your party leaders don't think you're stupid, they're counting on it!)
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To: AZBigDog

I believe the Apathy that took over in this nation over elections isn't as bad as it was before 9/11. 9/11 woke some people up - Thank God. I just wish it had gotten more up and going -

As for all the new voters - that might make the difference - especially in Ohio. The Socialist Democrats have done a good job in the state -

just a thought - I hope if they keep using the polls to show Kerry ahead - it gets the other side out in force!


11 posted on 10/14/2004 3:43:54 PM PDT by Pastnowfuturealpha
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To: airborne
Rumsfeld, December 3, 2003:

'as we know, there known knowns. There are things we know we know. There are also things we know that are unknown. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know, but there are also unknown unknowns. The ones we don't know we know.'
12 posted on 10/14/2004 3:59:40 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko ("Ted Kennedy is the conservative Senator from Massachusetts.")
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To: freestyle
I won a $1000 on Allard and $1500 on Bob Smith, Allard in 2002 and Smith in the Dan Rather election, Allard is a constant money maker. I follow the Congessional Elections if you follow the turn out in the Congressional districts, the bigger races are a no brainer.
13 posted on 10/14/2004 4:02:16 PM PDT by Little Bill (John F'n Kerry is a self promoting scumbag!)
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To: Mike Fieschko
Help Us Race To Victory, Volunteer for the 72 Hour Program

You know this could be some to get all the FReeper to support and or promote have you contact JimRob to see if he would link and promote this like a FReeper fund drive?... it would be great to get Rush and Hannity to promote this it could make a difference...

An unprecedented mass turnout of new grass roots Republican volunteers could result in an unprecedented mass turnout of Republican voters

14 posted on 10/14/2004 4:04:20 PM PDT by tophat9000
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To: tophat9000; Jim Robinson
Help Us Race To Victory, Volunteer for the 72 Hour Program

I You know this could be some to get all the FReeper to support and or promote have you contact JimRob to see if he would link and promote this like a FReeper fund drive?


I don't have any special in or standing here, so I'm pinging.

Help Us Race To Victory, Volunteer for the 72 Hour Program
15 posted on 10/14/2004 4:07:59 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko ("Ted Kennedy is the conservative Senator from Massachusetts.")
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To: AZBigDog
Although I can express myself here, (somewhat anonymously) I don't generally do so in person..
I especially don't respond to polls, especially telephone polling..

It's that whole "secret ballot" tradition with me...
Let them GUESS who I'm voting for..

I'm sure there are more than a few Liberally inclined freinds and relatives that think I will vote for Kerry..
Let them think what they will..
Possibly their sense of security in a Kerry win will make them lax..
Possibly, in their laxness, they will not bother to vote, as "the outcome is already a foregone conclusion"...

I will vote.. I always vote..

16 posted on 10/14/2004 4:19:49 PM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: AZBigDog
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW

Not only don't I know what I think I know but I also don't know if I think. And if I don't think then how can I know if I know much less know if I know what I think. Or for that matter even approach thinking that I know what I know or think what I know or know what I think.

You get my drift ???
17 posted on 10/14/2004 5:44:54 PM PDT by festus (I was right wing when right wing wasn't cool.......)
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To: AZBigDog

Gay marriage on the ballot in 10 states. Add in Fn's Mary Cheney remark, and we have a blowout brewing.


18 posted on 10/14/2004 5:50:30 PM PDT by petercooper (Everything I ever needed to know about Islam, I learned on 9-11-01.)
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To: Little Bill

So how much do I put on Bush?


19 posted on 10/14/2004 11:46:24 PM PDT by freestyle
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To: freestyle

Depends on what you're trying to put on him.


20 posted on 10/15/2004 11:15:33 AM PDT by AZBigDog
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