Posted on 10/14/2004 1:55:15 PM PDT by areafiftyone
The Swift Boat Controversy: New Witnesses
October 14, 2004
John Kerry's service in Vietnam has become a campaign issue. The group calling itself Swift Boat Veterans for Truth alleges that Kerry has distorted the truth about what happened during the war and questions whether he deserved the medals he received. Tonight, you'll hear from eyewitnesses who have not spoken before: the Vietnamese who fought against him.
We've had the debates and the race is a virtual dead-heat. This is the part of a campaign when there are daily fires--issues that rise, flare, and then go away, only to be replaced by a new one the next day. But for a while, this campaign was dominated by Vietnam, a war that ended, at least the fighting, thirty years ago. John Kerry made his service in Vietnam a major part of his campaign. The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth fired back. They have alleged that Kerry was not truthful about his actions in Vietnam. Then questions were raised about the group's connections to people linked to the GOP. And so the story just kept spiraling in different directions. But the polls clearly showed that Kerry was hurt by allegations that he was not candid about his actions in Vietnam.
Which brings us to an old expression: the fog of war. People, in general, are not always great eyewitnesses. Memories fade, especially as the years go by. Two people standing next to each other may have very different recollections of something that happened right in front of them. But in the whole Swift Boat controversy, there is one group that hasn't been heard from at length: the Vietnamese. Producer Andrew Morse went to Vietnam, to the coordinates taken from the U.S. military after-action report from Kerry's battle for which he won the Silver Star. And there Andrew found several people who had either witnessed the events of that day, or in some cases, had actually fought against the swift boats. And it is their accounts that you will hear tonight. Do their accounts favor one version or the other? Can these questions be definitively settled? You'll have to judge. One of the surprising stories we were told? One of the Vietnamese men in the area says he was visited by a man claiming to be a swift boat veteran and a cameraman. He says the veteran was disparaging towards Kerry's conduct in the war, and asked him in an interview about the events of that day. We do not know who that man is, or whatever happened to that tape.
Ted will be anchoring tonight, and he will be joined by John O'Neill, a leader of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and the author of Unfit for Command, a book critical of Kerry. I hope you'll join us.
Leroy Sievers and the Nightline Staff,br> Washington D.C.
How is it that the admitted war criminal John Kerry left any witnesses?
Of course the VC will remember this ONE incident. It was the ONLY mine that ever went off in the river and hit a swiftboat.
And not only will ABC's inscrutable oriental remember the incident, he will remember John Kerry specifically. Don't all you Vietnam vets remember the names of the VC you shot at?
I sent the picture on post #242, with a few words of advice!!
Fair point.
First off - I hadn't seen this thread before this moment and so haven't read it yet. I didn't know this was an upcoming show, probably because I read threads today about last night's debate. And I didn't read pings to me. That's my fault I didn't know.
However! I couldn't BELIEVE this crap that Koppel spewed towards John O'Neil! For pete's sake - he wouldn't even let him talk!
The only positive thing I can think on this, is that now at least the issue is on MSM. ABC Dateline must be a MSM show, isn't it?
God bless the Swift Boat Veterans!!!
===
ok, now off to read the thread before responding further, lol.
| NOTES | Zumwalt Original | Hyland Revision | Lehman Revision |
| HEADING: Aside from the differences in the issuing authority and minor punctuation, Kerry's middle name is shortened in the final revision to the initial "F." which more resembles Kerry's hero, John F. Kennedy. |
COMMANDER UNITED STATES NAVAL FORCES VIETNAM The President of the Unites States takes pleasure in presenting the Silver Star Medal to JOHN FORBES KERRY LIEUTENANT JUNIOR GRADE UNITED STATES NAVAL RESERVE for service as set forth in the following: CITATION |
COMMANDER IN CHIEF UNITED STATES PACIFIC FLEET The President of the Unites States takes pleasure in presenting the Silver Star Medal to Lieutenant (junior grade) John Forbes KERRY United States Naval Reserve for service as set forth in the following: CITATION |
THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY WASHINGTON The President of the Unites States takes pleasure in presenting the SILVER STAR MEDAL to LIEUTENANT (JUNIOR GRADE) JOHN F. KERRY UNITED STATES NAVAL RESERVE for service as set forth in the following CITATION: |
| PLACE and TIME: The official reference to "Vietnamese Regional and Popular Forces" in the original citation is reduced to just "regional", removing any notion they were "Popular." The words "junior grade" are shortened in the final revision to "jg" in most places for the Massachusetts junior Senator. |
"For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving as Officer in Charge of United States Navy Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of an operation in the Republic of Vietnam. On 28 February 1969, Patrol Craft Fast 23, 43 and 94, in conjunction with Underwater Demolition Team 13 and Vietnamese Regional and Popular Forces personnel, conducted an operation on the Ca Mau Peninsula as part of Operation SEA LORDS. | "For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with the Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with the Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat unit engaged in inserting Vietnamese regional force troops on a reconnaissance in force mission. | For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with the Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with the Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (jg) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat unit engaged in inserting Vietnamese regional force troops on a reconnaissance in force mission. |
| FIRST ACTION: "Small arms" is enhanced to "automatic weapons and small arms." (Had there been another revision, it would no doubt say "assault rifles.") The strength of the Swift force is approximately 18 crew, with 90 Vietnamese and demolition forces as passengers. The friendly force total is removed from the revisions and an enemy force total of 20 is added. This addition means that someone got information other than the original citation for the revisions. The removal of the number 90 (3 PCF units x 30) makes plausible the addition of "numerically superior" enemy added at the end of the revisions (20 VC vs. 18 crew). Also, in narrative one, the South Vietnamese troops did the ground sweep while one PCF stayed on station and two moved upstream. In narratives two and three the South Vietnamese troops play no part and credit for picking up the enemy weapons on shore is transfered to the crew gunners who should have still been posted at the 50 calibres providing cover for the ground troops and protecting the PCFs themselves. |
While transiting the Bay Hap River en route to an insertion point along the Dong Cung River, these craft with thirty Regional/Popular Force personnel embarked in each unit came under heavy enemy small arms fire from the river banks. The Officer in Tactical Command, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY directed his units to turn to the beach and charge the Viet Cong positions. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY expertly directed the fire of his craft at the fleeing enemy while simultaneously coordinating the insertion of the embarked troops. While the Regional and Popular Forces conducted an area sweep, Patrol Craft Fast 43 remained on station to provide fire support and | As the force approached the target area on the narrow Dong Cung River, all units came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than fifty feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY ordered his boat to attack as all units opened fire and beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. This daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers. The PCF gunners captured many enemy weapons in the battle that followed. | As the force approached the target area on the narrow Dong Cung River, all units came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than fifty feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant (jg) Kerry ordered his boat to attack as all units opened fire and beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. This daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers. The PCF gunners captured many enemy weapons in the battle that followed. |
| SECOND ACTION: The original citation contains the most impressive account of personal heroism on the part of Lt.(jg) Kerry, the famous story of single-handedly chasing down and killing a VC and capturing a live rocket. This daring exploit is not in the revised citations. One has to wonder why? Without that element, is this really Silver Star material? The "numerically superior" enemy cannot be from the second action as the lone VC in the original citation is the only enemy mentioned. The request by Army advisors and the 800 yard distance are not mentioned in the original citation, further indicating independent sources for the revisions. |
Patrol Craft Fast 23 and 94 moved upstream to investigate an area from which gunshots were coming. Arriving at the area, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY's craft received a B-40 rocket close aboard. Once again Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY ordered his units to charge the enemy positions and summoned Patrol Craft Fast 43 to the area to provide additional firepower. Patrol Craft Fast 94 then beached in the center of the enemy positions and an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft Fast 94 and fled. Without hesitation Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY then led an assault party and conducted a sweep of the area while the Patrol Craft Fast continued to provide fire support. After the enemy had been completely routed, all personnel returned to the Patrol Craft Fast to withdraw from the area. | On a request from U.S. Army advisors ashore, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY ordered PCFs 94 and 23 further up river to suppress enemy sniper fire. After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats were again taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and a B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF 94. With utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area, an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed. | On a request from U.S. Army advisors ashore, he ordered PCFs 94 and 23 further up river to suppress enemy sniper fire. After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats were again taken underfire from a heavily foliated area and a B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF 94. With utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area, an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed. |
| THIRD ACTION: The third action is mentioned only in the original citation. There is no indication that any assessment was made of effectiveness of the fire in EKIA or materiel. |
While backing off the beach, these units again came under a hail of fire, this time from the opposite river bank. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY immediately coordinated the firepower of his units and suppressed the enemy fire. | [no mention] | [no mention] |
| FOURTH ACTION: The fourth action is mentioned only in the original citation. There is no indication that any assessment was made of effectiveness of the fire in EKIA or materiel. |
Later, after disembarking personnel and while exiting from the Bay Hap River, the Patrol Craft Fast were again taken under fire. Lieutanant (junior grade) KERRY immediately maneuvered his craft through several strafing runs which completely silenced the enemy. | [no mention] | [no mention] |
| OVERALL RESULTS: Only in the original citation is any mention made of enemy killed (11 total) or wounded (1). The revisions seem to wipe the scene of any blood and clear Lt.(jg) Kerry of killing anybody. It is a totally bloodless Silver Star according to the revisions and seems to have accomplished very little for the expenditure of ammo. |
As a result of this operation, ten Viet Cong were killed and one wounded with no friendly casualties. In addition, numerous sampans, structures and bunkers were destroyed as well as confiscationn of substantial quantities of combat essential supplies. | [no mention] | [no mention] |
| COMMENDATION: In the first revision, extraordinary personal courage is substituted for outstanding leadership even as his most personally courageous and only specific action was removed. In the second revision, "brave", "bold" and "great credit" are added to his appelations. |
Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY's devotion to duty, courage under fire, outstanding leadership, and exemplary professionalism directly contributed to the success of this operation and were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service." | The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission. His actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service." | The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant (jg) Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission. By his brave action, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (jg) Kerry reflected great credit on himself and upheld the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service." |
| SIGNATURE: At each revision, a more prestigious signature was obtained. |
For the President (sig. E R Zumwalt) E. R. ZUMWALT, Jr. Vice Admiral, U. S. Navy Commander U. S. Naval Forces, Vietnam |
For the President (sig. John Hyland) JOHN HYLAND Admiral, U.S. Navy Commander in Chief U.S. Pacific Fleet |
For the President, (sig. John Lehman) Secretary of the Navy |
| SOURCES: | johnkerry.com (p.7-8) | johnkerry.com (p.1) | johnkerry.com (p.2) |
In a communist country there are no real human beings. I used to live there. I know every one is just a tool. I know real stories how peasants lied voluntarily or involuntarily.
Here is my e-mail:
Tonight it became apparent that Ted Koppel and Dan Rather have something in common, a blinding bias to the truth. Shame on your network for airing such trash.
I thought they all had their heads chopped off and villages burned in the way of "Jeingas Khan".
Well hells bells lets start getting the truth from the commies instead of American Vets.
You would think if ABC was interested in getting it right they would have interviewed the guys on THE OTHER BOATS! Kerry's boat wasn't the only one there for crying out loud.
Another dispicable showing by the MSM.
Please wake me up. The communists are now truthtellers and the AMERICAN COMBAT HEROES are some lying scum that tried to make the poor Vietnamese commies lie about heroic John Kerry!
I don't think O'Heill had a bad night. It was a set up from the beginning. Before he introduced O'Neill, Koppel said they wouldn't have enough time to cover all of O'Neill's points, just the silver star part. How this can happen with a pre taped report is beyond me. They tried a sucker punch and it didn't work. O'neill had to recover quickly. On most interviews, the host tries to get O'Neill to concede a certain point. They always fail but move on. Ted tried to hammer O'Neill with the film report only and stayed there. Ted didn't get the pro Kerry answer he wanted so he kept trying different ways. I think O'Neill showed great strength in not calling Koppel a stupid SOB, which he is.
At least CBS based their bogus report on what they thought were American military documents rather than enemy accounts.
Liberals are in the own little world. They will always underestimate the conservatives.
He was not 'cool' because Koppel was doing to the Vietnam veterans what he did back during the war. My blood would be boiling too if I were in his situation.
Freepers are outstanding!
What a chart!
I think it's important for all of us to focus on the point that Ted Koppel and ABCNews takes the word of "Peasants" as the absolute truth. He puts forth that their account backs up the after action report - it does not. He states that it backs up his award citation - it does not.
This is an absolute fraud and any "journalist" who takes the word of a "Communist Peasant" over that of a U.S. Senator and 200 Decorated War Veterans does not deserve to be in America. I hope that after Bush is elected that we do not let this go and that Kerry's true colors continue to be pursued.
Substance is what matters, but if its style that will make a dumb liberal come to his/her senses, then style is ok. We can work on educating them later.
That bears repeating. John O'Neill is amazing. What a hero, the way he has taken on the Bolshevik media. No small task, and certainly not for the weak.
He succeeded in informing a number of voters that Kerry is honored in their war museum as one of their heros who caused America lose that war.
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